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Logo 400 › ICE 50 on a LOGO 400 VBAR mini review
01-17-2010 02:07 PM  8 years agoPost 1
mmc205

rrElite Veteran

PA - USA

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Wanted to lay out some information about the new ICE 50 controller on my logo 400.

My setup:
Logo 400 Vbar
Radix blades
hitec 5245 servos
scorpion 3026-1600 w/ 15T pinion
ICE 50 ESC (8S heatsink version)
9257 tail servo
kbdd tail blades
turnigy 20C 6S 2650 lipo (about 20 cycles)

ICE 50 specs

Length: 1.6"
Width: 1.3"
Height: 0.8"
Weight: 34.6g (not including wires
Actual Weight: 60g (including wires, no connectors)
http://www.castlecreations.com/prod...hoenix_ice.html

OK, to the good stuff. So far, i'm very impressed. Some of you may ask why i chose the 50 rather than the 75 or 100. Weight savings, and i believed it could take the abuse. The continous rating is 50 amps, and they don't really list a maximum rating, but in the current limiting section of the software, they list 80A as the "insensitive" setting. Using that as a benchmark i thought i would be fine as most of my 500 helis only average about 25-30 amps with spikes to 60-70A

The governor seems to work well as you can see, only about +/- 100 rpm on the most aggressive collective movements (full stick tic-tocs, usually have better collective management but wanted to see what the controller would to in the worst case)

I have the RPM set for 2500 and a tach confirmed the speed at the field. I'm running a 15T pinion as i try to use the smallest pinion possible to get a certain headspeed, thus using all of the available torque.

I did however have to boost the battery voltage in the castle software to almost 4.1v/cell so it allowed me to set 2500 as my rpm. In telling you whether your "set rpm" values are okay, it seems to be very conservative. I also have the govornor gain set to "high" which i believe correlates to a value of "35". I have yet to play with this setting, this is just my starting point for all my castle escs with governor.

I also had a tail twitch with my previous esc (hacker) that i couldn't shake. Most told me, and rightly so that a larger servo would take care of that, but i wanted to stick with the 9257, again for weight savings (seeing a trend? )

Below are some graphs from the castle data log on the ice, which i found to be rather easy to use and useful for benchmarking a new drive system and tweaking.

***Logo 600 vbar***Henseleit TDR vbar***

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01-17-2010 04:33 PM  8 years agoPost 2
Stolla

rrKey Veteran

Port elizabeth South Africa

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Just be careful when you upgrade to higher c lipo's chances are you'll thermal the esc for sure

Common sense may not be common after all

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01-17-2010 05:25 PM  8 years agoPost 3
Al Austria

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Sacramento, CA - USA

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Just be careful when you upgrade to higher c lipo's chances are you'll thermal the esc for sure
If he goes to a higher C rated pack, his current demands will go down as his voltage drop under load will be less. This is assuming, of course, he does not deviate from his current governor/headspeed setup(consistent loads).

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01-17-2010 07:53 PM  8 years agoPost 4
mmc205

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PA - USA

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Al, i believe you're right, if i go to a higher C pack i'll actaully be in a better situation given my headspeed and flying style is similar. Honestly, i think they under-rate their controller by quite a bit.

***Logo 600 vbar***Henseleit TDR vbar***

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01-17-2010 09:10 PM  8 years agoPost 5
Jafa

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Sydney, Australia

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I did however have to boost the battery voltage in the castle software
to almost 4.1v/cell so it allowed me to set 2500 as my rpm.
In telling you whether your "set rpm" values are okay,
it seems to be very conservative
You do not have to boost the battery voltage value at all
When the speed setting goes red and you get the message saying
the speed is too high for effective governing
It just a warning message - nothing more
If you're certain your setup is correct - ignore the warning

Remember, the software is taking into account the fact that
the battery voltage is going to drop during the flight
On a 100% flat throttle your setup looks good for
~2700rpm (@ 3.9v) at the start
~2400rpm (@ 3.5v) at the end

Looking at your data log the ESC power output %
is around 75% at the start of the flight
but is getting close to 90% at th end of the flight

Not a lot of headroom but it's working fine
Just be careful when you upgrade to higher c lipo's chances are you'll thermal the esc for sure
No chance of that happening when his current peaks are only ~55 amps
(on a 50amp continuous ESC)
His average looks like it's something approaching 30 amps


Protos | Logo 400 & 500 | Sceadu Evo | Freya Evo | Trex600N | Avant FX

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01-17-2010 11:33 PM  8 years agoPost 6
mmc205

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PA - USA

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thanks for the info jafa, good way to look at it!

***Logo 600 vbar***Henseleit TDR vbar***

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01-17-2010 11:37 PM  8 years agoPost 7
mmc205

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PA - USA

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BAsically, in conclusion, i'm very happy with the ICE controller. I'm no 3D pro but for my needs (aerobatics, decent 3D) it serves the purpose well and at a nice price point.

***Logo 600 vbar***Henseleit TDR vbar***

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01-18-2010 12:01 AM  8 years agoPost 8
Jafa

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Sydney, Australia

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I agree - I use the ICE 50 Lite and ICE 100 and while you can argue from the data logging that the Kontronic governors are better, the CC HV & ICE ESC's perform well at a good price point

The built in data logging facility is awesome


Protos | Logo 400 & 500 | Sceadu Evo | Freya Evo | Trex600N | Avant FX

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01-18-2010 11:55 AM  8 years agoPost 9
Stolla

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Port elizabeth South Africa

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Amp draw definately goes up with higher c lipo's, i've tested on eagletree and have firsthand experience of thermalling on esc's. You'll find numerous posts on the subject. You'll find your motor and esc will get hotter but lipos will be cooler compared to lower c.

Common sense may not be common after all

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01-18-2010 01:14 PM  8 years agoPost 10
MrMel

rrProfessor

Gotland

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Amp draw definately goes up with higher c lipo's, i've tested on eagletree and have firsthand experience of thermalling on esc's. You'll find numerous posts on the subject. You'll find your motor and esc will get hotter but lipos will be cooler compared to lower c.
Yes and No
With same RPM and if the pack wasnt limiting factor, the ampdraw will go down. (I got 40 seconds longer flighttime going from 25->35C)

But if you raise RPM the Ampdraw will follow, also if the pack was limiting the heli before, the ampdraw goes up.

Gone fishing..or hunting..or something
My site: http://heli.dacsa.net - VBar videos and more

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01-18-2010 02:13 PM  8 years agoPost 11
mmc205

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PA - USA

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what also amazes me is how consistent my mah usage is. I fly similar each time i fly, but do different moves, some flights more fff, some more stationary tricks. But on my logo 400 with the current setup, it pulls 414 mah/min +/- 5mah. I think thats kind of amazing. I guess it could be attributed to the fact that most of your power is spent holding the weight of the heli basically, with spikes when you do anything else. I'm guessing fff is nearly similar to hover power because of the added load of movement but the removed load due to translational lift.

***Logo 600 vbar***Henseleit TDR vbar***

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01-18-2010 02:16 PM  8 years agoPost 12
mmc205

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PA - USA

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Mr. Mel,
One question i have is how much voltage ripple is acceptable? I can chart it but have no baseline for what it should be?

***Logo 600 vbar***Henseleit TDR vbar***

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01-18-2010 02:20 PM  8 years agoPost 13
mmc205

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PA - USA

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ohh, also wanted to add that the castle esc did seem to all but eliminate my tail twitch. I believe the ability to up the governor gain helped with this, keeping the headspeed more stable and the tail happier. I think the hacker esc would vary +/- about 200 rpm, but then again that was a totally different gearing and drive system to hard to make a comparison.

***Logo 600 vbar***Henseleit TDR vbar***

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01-18-2010 04:06 PM  8 years agoPost 14
MrMel

rrProfessor

Gotland

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One question i have is how much voltage ripple is acceptable? I can chart it but have no baseline for what it should be?
Sorry, cant answer that, it's something I think only Castle can answer.

Gone fishing..or hunting..or something
My site: http://heli.dacsa.net - VBar videos and more

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01-19-2010 12:23 AM  8 years agoPost 15
Jafa

rrElite Veteran

Sydney, Australia

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Good question - battery voltage ripple is new to us all

At this stage, I think all we can do is compare between batteries we have to find the brands (or pack configurations) that have the lowest ripple

Over time we will learn what is "normal"


Protos | Logo 400 & 500 | Sceadu Evo | Freya Evo | Trex600N | Avant FX

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01-19-2010 06:18 AM  8 years agoPost 16
Stolla

rrKey Veteran

Port elizabeth South Africa

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"Yes and No
With same RPM and if the pack wasnt limiting factor, the ampdraw will go down. (I got 40 seconds longer flighttime going from 25->35C)"

Fredrik of course you're correct, for the sake of clearing this up i should have been more specific. I also found longer flight times generally but under pitch pumping manouvres, and other demanding 3d manouvres the amp draws went up quite dramatically, guess this refers to your comment when the packs are the limiting factor!
So inbetween 3d stuff you will draw less equalling bretter flight times but the danger-zone occurs during serious 3d moves
Compared with the lower c the rpm's dont drop as much during this manouvres so amp draw temps etc goes up that may create a thermal of the esc.
So in context my warning was not meant to be techinical or create a technical dicussion but merely to provide a general warning in laymans terms to everyone going the higher c route. Usually as in my case you don't change gearing curves etc so rpm's goes up especially under load and then you get your surprise...your first thermal and consequent autorotation. This happened to me on 3 different helis, all on hyp 35 c's from outrage.
I'm aware that it wont matter if youre just flying around but as we all know it's gona progress to the more serious stuff eventually.

Common sense may not be common after all

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01-19-2010 01:22 PM  8 years agoPost 17
mmc205

rrElite Veteran

PA - USA

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good comments stolla, when i upgrade batteries i'll keep on eye on that. Though i must admit, i already went through my "power" phase where all i wanted was a crazy powerful heli. Now my game is to keep the RPM at a point where i get the best combination of runtime and adequate power using decent collective management. On my trex 500, it seems to be 2500-2600. On the logo, i'm guessing it will be similar, but maybe slightly higher as the logo weighs about 2 oz more than the trex 500.

***Logo 600 vbar***Henseleit TDR vbar***

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Logo 400 › ICE 50 on a LOGO 400 VBAR mini review
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