RunRyder RC
WATCH
 2 pages [ <<    <    ( 1 )     2     NEXT    >> ] 10720 views POST REPLY
HomeAircraftHelicopterBlades and Night Flying › Blade difference between flybar & flybarless versions
01-17-2010 04:32 AM  8 years agoPost 1
rotory

rrApprentice

Los Angeles

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Its a puzzle to me, Can any one shed light on this?

thanks
Bob

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
01-21-2010 01:52 PM  8 years agoPost 2
jczankl

rrKey Veteran

AZ

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Flybar vs Flybarless
The Main difference is the Flybarless blades are a more stable blade. For flybarless it's nice to have a more stable blade...the more unstable the blade the harder the electronics have to work. And your model will fly erratic.

GAUI/Empire
Xpert Servos
PowerMaster Fuels
YS Engines
Graupner
Castle Creations
Scorpion Motor
VTX Blades

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
01-21-2010 02:19 PM  8 years agoPost 3
kc8qpu

rrElite Veteran

sc

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

So does that mean that flybarless blades will work much better than regular blades with a flybar setup?

Carpe Diem!!!

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
01-21-2010 02:37 PM  8 years agoPost 4
Duckster

rrApprentice

Brunei

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

The flybarless vs Flybar...... U can see the comparison on edge blade, the flybarless blade is bit heavy then the flybar, what ppl on the field said that the flybarless need heavy blade to compensate the roll rate since it move too fast soo they need the heavy blade, while the flybar need light blade soo it will move bit fast, light and popey just an opinion, both flybar and flybarless got a pros and cons, and both are fun, since flybarless is new techno ppl try to make things better everyday, its all about market and willingness of ppl in this hobby. newer technology is getting better everyday soo its up to u to make ur choice

Trex 600,700 AND 450, GY611, GY401, OS5H, OS91HZ, MGP, HS65HB, Scorpion 2221-8,

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
01-21-2010 03:20 PM  8 years agoPost 5
jczankl

rrKey Veteran

AZ

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

kc8qpu We find that a Specific Flybarless blade has a better all around feel on a flybarless unit than a flybar blade.

But you also have to remember that in this hobby everything is personal preference. To see some of the specs on different blades check here

http://www.edgerotorblades.com/products.html

GAUI/Empire
Xpert Servos
PowerMaster Fuels
YS Engines
Graupner
Castle Creations
Scorpion Motor
VTX Blades

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
01-22-2010 07:43 AM  8 years agoPost 6
rotory

rrApprentice

Los Angeles

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Thank you all for your input.
Based on what I gather, is it correct to think that flybarless would give you better auto, due to higher weight, so higher energy reserved in the blades? And I mean that besides it being more efficient, less drag.

Bob

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
01-22-2010 07:51 AM  8 years agoPost 7
OICU812

rrMaster

Edson, Alberta, Canada

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

yes rotary IMO FBL does auto better etc for your exact assumptions spoken yes sir.

...Once upon a time there were Nitros, flybars and frequency pins...

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
01-22-2010 10:02 AM  8 years agoPost 8
falcon

rrKey Veteran

UK

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

This is a good question. I have several pairs of Radix blades and the question is do i need new blades on my 600E 600N and my Raptors if i change to FBL?

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
01-22-2010 12:45 PM  8 years agoPost 9
Justin Stuart (RIP)

rrMaster

Plano, Texas

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I've been flying "normal" blades on my FBL helis with no problems.

Avant RC
Scorpion Power Systems
Thunder Power RC
Kontronik Drives

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
01-22-2010 02:37 PM  8 years agoPost 10
jczankl

rrKey Veteran

AZ

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Falcon
You do not need to change to flybarless. If your happy with the blades your currently running I see no need to change. But I would encourage you to try a set of the flybarless. :-) happy flying

GAUI/Empire
Xpert Servos
PowerMaster Fuels
YS Engines
Graupner
Castle Creations
Scorpion Motor
VTX Blades

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
01-22-2010 04:35 PM  8 years agoPost 11
CoronaL

rrKey Veteran

Winnebago IL

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

radix are probably the "best" "normal" blade for FBL setup. At least that's what I've been told by several people who are great pilots and have flown FBL setups.

Randy!!! I am the liquor

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
01-23-2010 03:49 PM  8 years agoPost 12
Dirthead

rrApprentice

Thornton Co.

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

From what I'm seeing here, if you go FBL then you need a heavier blade correct? Hmm sounds like you are only counter acting the instability of the FBL system. So here is my ? What is the advantage of the FBL system?

Keep ur head out the dirt only in the grass

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
01-24-2010 05:36 PM  8 years agoPost 13
jczankl

rrKey Veteran

AZ

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Dirthead
The advantage of the flybarless system in my eyes are these...

1) When you go flybarless you get "More Horse Power" by taking off all that extra weight spinning around at the top of the rotor head.

2) Faster Cyclic and Collective Response!

3) You have 3 Gyro's stabalizing the helicopter at all times

If you like your Cyclic and collective super fast then fly a set of "Regular" Blades. You might notice a few erratic changes flying a set of these blades compared to a flybarless blades. It's all person preference at this point. Some people like the faster response and some people dont. Depending on which flybarless system you have you can dial that in or out!

I hope this information is useful

JC

GAUI/Empire
Xpert Servos
PowerMaster Fuels
YS Engines
Graupner
Castle Creations
Scorpion Motor
VTX Blades

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
01-25-2010 07:01 AM  8 years agoPost 14
spdntckt

rrApprentice

San Jose, CA USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I also noticed that the FBL specific blades do not have any 'lead' or 'lag' built into them, they are neutral in that aspect. This in theory makes it much easier for the FBL gyros to stabilize the heli and achieve near perfect tracking.

most 'normal' blades have a lead in them to help with overall responsiveness..

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
01-26-2010 03:24 AM  8 years agoPost 15
HeliVIG

rrApprentice

Hearne, TX USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

There is not a major difference between good Flybar and flybarless blade setups, you just want a good stable blade. If the blades tend to be pitchy in flight, flybarless systems do not react well to them. So some extra light blades used on flybared machines for extreme control rates do not work well on flybarless systems. But good stable blades do work well.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
02-02-2010 12:19 AM  8 years agoPost 16
Dirthead

rrApprentice

Thornton Co.

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Ok... two ?'s 1 lead lag, is that where the root hole being ahead or behind of the lengthwise cg? And 2, I've heard/seen that FBL systems tend to pitch and bob in fast foward flight. Is this due to the blades being to light?
Doesnt the flybar add leverage to the blades in a cyclic input?
Heres another one... you remove weight (flybar) add weight(to the blades) sounds like a trade off to me.
Folks dont get the wrong idea here I certanly am NOT trying to stir up any s***, just trying to better understand. In fact I'm trying to figure out if I want to try it out or not

Keep ur head out the dirt only in the grass

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
02-03-2010 03:44 AM  8 years agoPost 17
HeliVIG

rrApprentice

Hearne, TX USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

1.) yes- lead/lag refers to the blade swinging forward or back relative to the bolt hole in flight

2.) Pitching and Bobbing in fast forward flight is either too high a gain on the flight control or something else wrong with the controller or setup. The flight control should keep the machine stable in fast forward flight.

3.) The flybar can add leverage but it can also slow things down in some situations when it does not react fast enough. Or over control and make things unstable if it reacts too fast.

4.) Weight on the flybar and weight on the blades are quite different. It is not really a trade off. And total weight is not the important measure. Moment of Intertia is important. If you have a lot of weight but it is near the center of the disk, that is not as stabilizing as the same weight far out on the disk.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
02-04-2010 02:13 AM  8 years agoPost 18
Dirthead

rrApprentice

Thornton Co.

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

What would cause the blades to swing in the grip in flight? How could this 'lead/lag' condition be "built" into or out of the blade?

Keep ur head out the dirt only in the grass

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
02-04-2010 05:07 PM  8 years agoPost 19
HeliVIG

rrApprentice

Hearne, TX USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I do not want to say too much as that would help others make better blades. But the lead lag is determined by a couple of things. CG and the blade airfoil can affect it as well.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
02-09-2012 03:54 AM  6 years agoPost 20
Kaborkian

rrNovice

Lafayette, LA USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Lead/lag is determined by the fore/aft cg of the blade vs Aero forces. If the blade is trailing edge heavy enough to overcome aerodynamic induced drag, it will lead.

A leading blade that has an average center of lift that precedes the blade grip is inherently unstable. Lift force will cause the blade grip to rotate in the direction of more lift.

A lagging blade that has an average center of lift that follows the blade grip is inherently stable. Lift force will cause the blade grip to rotate against the direction of less left.

In either case, its possible for the lift force to overcome the servo control. In the lead case, the blade will twist the grip and cause flutter and won't end well. In the lag case, the blade will feather towards zero pitch until the servo force is matched. Both cases are very hard on servos.

A blade that has no lead or lag is theoretically the best case for servo life and linkage longevity.

Some pilots prefer a leading blade design because when you enter a maneuver, the blades will aid in accelerating in the direction of rotation and make the model feel very crisp and snappy.

Others prefer a lagging blade design because the inherent stability makes the model feel much smoother.

All things equal, a leading blade will accelerate into a roll faster and will have a faster ultimate roll rate.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
WATCH
 2 pages [ <<    <    ( 1 )     2     NEXT    >> ] 10720 views POST REPLY
HomeAircraftHelicopterBlades and Night Flying › Blade difference between flybar & flybarless versions
 Print TOPIC  Make Suggestion 

 8  Topic Subscribe

Wednesday, November 14 - 5:14 am - Copyright © 2000-2018 RunRyder   EMAILEnable Cookies

The RC discussion world needs to consolidate. RR is now one choice for that. Its software is cutting edge. It hosts on-topic advertising. Help RR increase traffic buy making suggestions, posting in RR's new areas (sites) and by spreading the word.

The RunRyder Difference

• Category system to allow Rep/Vendor postings.
• Classifieds with sold (hidden) category.
• Classifieds with separate view new.
• Answer PMs offsite via email reply.
• Member gallery photos with advanced scripting.
• Gallery photo viewer integrated into postings.
• Highly refined search with advanced back end.
• Hosts its own high end fast response servers.
• Hosts thousands of HD event coverage videos.
• Rewrote entire code base with latest technology.
• No off-topic (annoying) click bait advertising.
Login Here
 New Subscriptions 
 Buddies Online