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HomeAircraftHelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › no Rudder control
01-17-2010 06:08 PM  8 years agoPost 21
dkshema

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Cedar Rapids, IA

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Switch your gyro over to rate mode.

The servo should follow the stick and return to neutral when you let go. See if that makes the servo behave any differently.

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Did you by any chance try to adjust your rudder servo travel by adjusting your rudder travel endpoints way down to some really small number?

If so, set the endpoints back to 100%.

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

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01-18-2010 12:08 AM  8 years agoPost 22
bhoff

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houston texas

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ya i set the end points to 100..i will try setting my gain to around negative 50..maybe that will do it..im not sure what mode my gyro is in if its hh or rate mode..i will get back to yall when i start it up with a negative gain

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01-19-2010 07:07 AM  8 years agoPost 23
bhoff

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houston texas

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nothings workin im gonna take it in the shop and c what they think iguess

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01-21-2010 05:42 PM  8 years agoPost 24
Murdock72

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South Dakota

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Is it belt drive? If so are the blades turning ccw when you turn the main blade cw?

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01-23-2010 02:18 AM  8 years agoPost 25
bhoff

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houston texas

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ya its belt driven and the tail blades turn ccw...

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01-23-2010 02:26 AM  8 years agoPost 26
Brokenlink

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Oakdale

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Did you ever think maybe your gyro is bad?

Jamie Griffith

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01-23-2010 02:13 PM  8 years agoPost 27
m1ke1

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New Salem, Massachusetts

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Just another thought are the tail blades facing the right direction I have seen this mess things up before with many guys trying to figure it out and the whole time tail blades were mounted backwards.

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01-23-2010 02:18 PM  8 years agoPost 28
Flying Brian

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St. Clairsville, Ohio

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Have you made sure your control guides are installed correctly. If there is to much space or no control guides installed, the linkage rod will create tons of slop, thus allowing the rudder to not work at all or incorrectly..

"I just don't Listen" "

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01-23-2010 09:14 PM  8 years agoPost 29
bhoff

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houston texas

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what are the control guides?? ill check the blades shoot i hope thats the problem..ill get bak to yall

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01-24-2010 03:59 AM  8 years agoPost 30
bhoff

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houston texas

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ya everythings setup right i dont get it unless the gyro is bad but i bought the 450 sport kit brand new.

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01-24-2010 04:46 AM  8 years agoPost 31
ShuRugal

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Killeen, TX

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sometimes you just get a bad egg. it's not a terribly common thing, but it's certainly not unheard of.

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01-24-2010 06:17 AM  8 years agoPost 32
bhoff

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houston texas

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true...but i think i fixed it.. i took apart the tail and the tail rotor holder blade grips or w.e. were loose from eachother...so i got my two allan wrenches and tightened them up and it worked when i was holding the heli with no blades(mine broke when my tail went out on 1st flight) but it was doing that before and then i put blades on and it doesnt work..but im gonna buy new set of blades tomorrow ill let yall know...i hope so

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01-24-2010 09:41 PM  8 years agoPost 33
bhoff

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houston texas

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ok i fixed it..i have my gain at negative 64, i took apart the tail and put it back together there were 2 screws loose...everythings workin..now my question is what does the gain setting do? is it the more gain the more sensitivity? mines negative cuz that puts it in rate mode...thanks for all yalls help!!!!

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01-25-2010 01:29 AM  8 years agoPost 34
dkshema

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Cedar Rapids, IA

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Gain. Think of it as telling the gyro just how aggressively you want it to go about stopping unwanted yaw in your heli. Low gains would require that the nose of the heli yaw a fair amount before the gyro steps in and commands the servo to stop the movement. High gains tell the gyro to sense small movements and immediately tell the servo to take care of them.

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Perhaps you have been fighting two different problems. One a mechanical problem, one a perception problem.

With regard to the mechanical problem, you seem to have found several different things that needed attention in the tail rotor control. You fixed those, and at the same time, got your gyro working in Normal/Rate mode.

The mechanical stuff -- loose bolts and such -- needed to be fixed and you seem to have done so.

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The perceived problem, may have been simply because you don't understand your gyro and what the servo should be doing in different modes.

In Normal/Rate mode, with the the heli sitting stationary on the ground, the rudder servo faithfully follows the rudder stick, even returning to neutral when you let go of the stick.

In Heading Hold mode, with the heli sitting stationary on the ground, the tail rotor servo most likely WON'T follow the stick well, and generally will not return to neutral when you let go of the stick.

Further, when in Heading Hold mode, the servo will stop moving when the rudder stick is say, maybe halfway to full left (or right). It would seem that the servo is moving only a fraction of the distance the stick is telling it to move. That is completely normal behavior, and to be expected.

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The gyro has a Travel Limit setting (I think yours has a left limit, and a right limit, I may be mistaken). This limit sets mechanically how far the gyro will let the servo move under ALL conditions. It's usually set such that the tail rotor pitch slider can move full left and full right without coming up against a hard mechanical stop. If you were to let the servo stall because it's up against a mechanical stop, the servo draws excessive current, can drain your battery in a hurry, can cause the servo amplifier and motor to heat up, and can cause the servo to fail.

The transmitter rudder channel travel endpoint setting needs to be left at 100% -- do NOT try to limit servo travel using the transmitter rudder endpoints. To do so will severely mess up your tail rotor response and control. The travel limit is adjusted using the GYRO settings. (Generally, set the rudder endpoints to 100%. Then, you have two adjustments left to control the movement of the servo. First is the distance out from center that you mount the tail rotor pitch control link. The second variable is the travel limit setting. Ideally, you would place the ball link at a distance out from center on the servo so that with full stick deflection, the servo travels at least +/- 45 degrees from neutral, the rudder endpoints are set to 100%, and the pitch slider doesn't bottom out mechanically. The travel limit adjustment AND the distance out from servo center are both adjusted to achieve that condition.

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The rudder endpoint setting in your transmitter does NOT control how far the servo moves anymore, it controls the maximum yaw rate that you will allow the gyro to permit when the rudder stick is fully deflected one way or the other. Normally, you'd start out with the rudder endpoint settings set to 100% and get the mechanical setup correct, and the servo travel limit set correctly.

Then, if you want a faster yaw rate under full rudder command, you increase the rudder channel endpoint setting to a number greater than 100%. If you find that you want a slower yaw rate under full rudder command, then you decrease the rudder channel endpoint setting to a number less than 100%.

When in heading hold mode, all you are commanding from the transmitter is left or right yaw direction, and depending upon how FAR you move the stick, how FAST you want that heading change to occur. Small stick movements, slow yaw rate. Large stick movements, faster yaw rates -- up to the limit allowed by the rudder channel endpoint setting.

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If you have things sorted out, hover your heli with the gyro in normal/rate mode and see if the nose wants to turn left or right. Land, and adjust the LINKAGE to correct the yaw condition. Keep adjusting the LINKAGE until you can hover in normal/rate mode without the nose of the heli wanting to turn left or right on its own.

If you had to make any linkage changes, re-set your left and right travel limit settings to make sure you don't have any mechanical binding for full left/right rudder.

One common and effective method for finding the right amount of gain involves flying the heli at high speed. Increase the gyro gain until you see the tail start to oscillate. Then back off the gain just a bit, till that oscillation is gone in fast forward flight.

You should be able to switch back to heading hold mode and the heli should be quite well-behaved in the air.

Just don't expect the rudder servo to move full stop to stop with the stick when the gyro is in heading hold mode.

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

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01-25-2010 04:34 AM  8 years agoPost 35
bhoff

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houston texas

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so your saying i should fly in HH mode and not rate mode..right now when i hover it does turn a little bit but mainly it seems like i barely move the rudder stick and it flies over that way idk if its supposed to be that quick it seems kinda odd..again should i be flying in HH mode?

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01-25-2010 04:37 AM  8 years agoPost 36
TMoore

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Cookeville, TN

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HH? Absolutely.

Might I suggest some local help.

TM

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01-25-2010 04:43 AM  8 years agoPost 37
bhoff

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houston texas

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for sure!

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01-25-2010 04:44 AM  8 years agoPost 38
ShuRugal

rrKey Veteran

Killeen, TX

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yes, you should be flying in HH mode.

the difference between HH and Rate modes are pretty subtle and hard to elucidate. Basically, in HH mode, your stick tells the gyro "turn at this speed" and the gyro says "okay!" and moves the servo enough to make it happen. in rate mode, the stick tells the gyro "move the servo this much" and that's what the gyro does.

so in HH, the gyro decides how much servo deflection, in rate mode, your thumb decides.

to make it turn at a slower speed in HH mode, you need to either assign a switch to rudder dual-rates and put a lower value on it, or use exponential settings to make the stick output less around the center. the latter method is generally prefered with helis, as it allows for precise control while still being able to make emergency manuevers without first hitting a switch.

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01-25-2010 04:53 AM  8 years agoPost 39
dkshema

rrMaster

Cedar Rapids, IA

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it seems like i barely move the rudder stick and it flies over that way
That is why EXPOnential was invented. It can be adjusted to make the stick-to-surface control around neutral very sensitive -- or very mild. Many people will dial in a good amount of expo to the tail rotor so that small movements of the thumb (whether intentional or accidental) don't translate to massive movements of the tail.

I think at this point you really do need someone who knows their way around a heli to go through your installation and setup completely, and correct any problems they find. It would be great if you could find a seasoned heli guy close by, so while he's going through your machine, you can be learning the tricks of the trade.

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

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01-25-2010 05:48 PM  8 years agoPost 40
dkshema

rrMaster

Cedar Rapids, IA

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Question for you.

When you installed and set up the GP750 gyro, did you properly set the left and right travel limits per the gyro instructions?

Another thought. I think you have an Align DS420 servo on the tail. Those servos are kind of hit and miss with regard to how well they work. If you can find a different servo to substitute for testing, do so. See if a different servo behaves in the same manner.

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

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HomeAircraftHelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › no Rudder control
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