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› Sylphide E conversion
01-18-2010 12:57 AM  8 years agoPost 61
F1 Rocket

rrKey Veteran

Melbourne, Florida USA

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Hi Ben,

Do you have a data log that shows the pack voltage?

Danny

Danny - DemonAero Support Team

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01-18-2010 01:18 AM  8 years agoPost 62
ymuraki

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Tampa, FL

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Cool Ben.

What the weather man call a day after 2 bad days of weather? Monday.

Weather is warming up here and hit over 50d, but wind is hitting 30mph + gust.
I went out to fly anyways because I was tierd of just looking at machines. This was not the condition of setting up new machine.
Sylphide hovered pretty well on that wind except tail tried to give up on pirouettes on 1480rpm, and once tail loads up. head speed tried to drop. I might have to raise governor response a little. I didn't have balls to take it to upstairs...
I did 2 sets of hovering and power consumption was 2000mAh.

I flew T700 when wind came down to constant 30mph. It's much noisier than Sylphide, but still quieter than glow. The peak power passed 4KW with a little over 100A. (I think peak power was either cobra roll or push over flip.) The pack I had on that one has a bad cell, but it held up.
Since I was able to lower hovering head speed on this firmware, I could save power consumption quite bit. Total usage was only 3600mAh.

Nob

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01-18-2010 02:57 AM  8 years agoPost 63
Dr.Ben

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Richmond, VA, USA

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Danny,

I emailed you the file, but the pack voltage over the flight settled to around 43 volts with a few 1/4 second dips to 41.85 volts under heavy load. I'd expect little more from inexpensive packs.

Ben

Peak Aircraft/Team Minicopter Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA

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01-18-2010 06:21 AM  8 years agoPost 64
Henke Beyers

rrNovice

South Africa

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Scorpion bearings
Hi Dr. Ben

Hope you're enjoying the cold weather. Here by us the weather is hot and nice so we are doing a lot of flying.

Anyway I've replaced the bearings on my scorpion after 50 flights. On my one the top bearing were worn more than the bottom, so I replaced both. I've regreased my new ones with a special high temp/speed grease and haven't oiled them since. Ive got over 25 flights on the new ones and it seems OK.

I'm also using the 97T main gear with 10T revco. Efficienty seems better. So far the machine's got about 70 flights without any technical issues.

Regards
Henke

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01-23-2010 12:43 AM  8 years agoPost 65
Dwight

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West Chicago, IL

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Ben,

As an interesting side note....In all the flights that I have used the data logger I have never pulled higher than 3500 watts in flight. My spool up from hover to idle up spiked to 3900 once. I am thinking you are loading this motor pretty hard. I would be curious to know how many watts you were using with the higher gear ratio.

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01-23-2010 02:32 AM  8 years agoPost 66
Dr.Ben

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Richmond, VA, USA

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Dwight,

I agree. The gear ratio didn't cause the 4000A spike. I made a mistake and had the model well overpitched. When I leaned on the collective, it gave me way more power than I needed.

After I reset the pitch to something more sensible, I was barely at 3000W.

When I went to the taller gear ratio, my hover current increased 2 amps over what I was pulling with 9.5. Upstairs I'm pulling maybe 10 more amps in a hard pull, but no more.

These lower kV motors that we are having to use with the gearing available for the Hirobo models are likely not behaving the same way was the higher kV ones that you and Wayne are running at much shorter gearing ratios. Regardless of what the calculations predicted, 450-500 kV on 9.5 does not give enough headroom to hold headspeed constant in maneuvers. It sounds OK, but the logger confirms that the power out of the ESC is often "tabletopped" at 100% for much more than brief periods as the ESC struggles to hold headspeed. My model was dropping a little over 100 rpm in rolls.

8.8:1 ABSOLUTELY gives me enough rope to hang myself efficiency wise. That said, I'm very used to cruising a model at 3/5-2/3 stick and asking for the real power only when I need it for pulls and so forth. Thus the net decrease in efficiency from running the talller ratio may not have the impact on my flying as it could on someone else's.

I'll have more solid logger data after this weekend. The weather is supposed to be mild on Sunday.

Please chime in here more often, because while a lot of guys are flying different kinds of set ups, the logger data backing the theory is in some cases a bit thin. I know you did a ton of logging last season.

Ben

Peak Aircraft/Team Minicopter Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA

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01-23-2010 01:43 PM  8 years agoPost 67
Dwight

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West Chicago, IL

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Ben,

I just recently found this thread. As for the lower kv motors....Steve Neu told me in the early testing that the lower kv motors do not have the punch that the higher kv motors have even though they have the same rating. Your situation may be the thing he was trying to point out however I know the headspeed on my machine does drop down during maneuvers also. I do not have an ICE controller on my 90 yet to confirm how my throttle is running. I fully expect to see similar numbers to what you have. The reason for this is that using the data logging charts suggest that when I use the loaded voltage on a fresh battery multiplied by the gear ratio I am upwards of 90 percent in idle up at 2000 head speed in a hover. I also think that many times you will be at 100 throttle to maintain head speed but under loading the batteries become the governor. If they can hold the voltage (higher C rating) under load, the head speed will remain more constant. I worked backwards to determine the head speed that I was willing to live with at the end of a flight based on many data logs. I looked at the lowest voltage I had in flight and then multiplied the gear ratio by the voltage to give me the acceptable head speed. I do know that my head speed will fall off to about 1875 during pulls at the later part of the flight because the battery voltage falls off. I am not convinced that you have to maintain a perfect constant head speed at the expense of efficiency.

Disclaimer: I am new at this and am willing to hear other reasons why I am incorrect on my theories

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01-23-2010 07:36 PM  8 years agoPost 68
cmir2425

rrApprentice

miami, fl usa

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I know somebody asked what Hiroki Ito's set up was for the 2009 wc's. Went to the Jr Japan website and this was the answer.

We got many request for Mr. Ito's specification.
Here is a his specifiction for both engine and electric helicopter.

Airskipper 90 (Engine)
Rotorhead: NHR-03 (Sylphide 90)
Blades: HI Products SSG-91
Paddles: K&S carbon
Tail blades: JR carbon L-105
Engine: YS90ST
Muffler: HATORI 90FS-3
Fuel: Cool power 30%
Gyro: JR G7000T
Servos: JR DS-8301
Transmitter: JR DSX9

SY-E10 (Electric)
Rotorhead: NHR-03 (Sylphide 90)
Blades: HI Products SSG-91
Paddles: K&S Carbon
Tail blades: JR carbon L-105
Motor: Actro 32-3
Batteries: Thunder power 5S6600
ESC: JETI SPIN99
Gyro: JR G7000T
Servos: DS8301
Transmitter: DSX9
Thank you!

I believe he uses the stock gear ratio on his Sylphide.

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01-23-2010 10:57 PM  8 years agoPost 69
Dr.Ben

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Richmond, VA, USA

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What they SAID the gyro was and what the gyro REALLY was are two different stories....... .

Ben Minor

Peak Aircraft/Team Minicopter Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA

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01-23-2010 11:13 PM  8 years agoPost 70
cmir2425

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miami, fl usa

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True, Dr. Ben. You said he was using a Futaba gy520. I wish there was actual pics of his set up. I searched through the WC gallery and there were none. All of these E-threads have me all excited about converting to electric.

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01-24-2010 01:59 AM  8 years agoPost 71
GM1

rrElite Veteran

Tallahassee, Florida US

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I was
I was there,working on the flight line and it was a GY 520.

On a dog sled team, if you're not the lead dog, the view never changes.

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01-24-2010 02:23 AM  8 years agoPost 72
Dr.Ben

rrMaster

Richmond, VA, USA

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Dwight,

I flew a little bit more today and logged a reasonably realistic round of CIII, both hover and the aeros. Pitch at a max of 10D @2050 in idle up, I have plenty for nice verticals. The max current spike it the flight was 80 amps with one 3500W peak (very brief; the average upstairs was about 2700 with 3000 in pulls). In 7:55 I consumed 3250 mA's. Headspeed was extremely consistent. Throttle out on the ICE shows percentages between 87 or so and 100% (instantaneous spikes to 100%). Next time I'm going to slow it down a bit more for a target flight time of a little over 8 minutes, perhaps 8:15. The set up runs REALLY well and sounds nice in hover and upstairs. Silcone grease on the maingear is a good thing.

As it sits right now, this works. I'll still keep 9.1:1 on the table, but I think I'll keep this thing set up as it is until Melbourne.

Ben

Peak Aircraft/Team Minicopter Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA

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02-07-2010 11:05 AM  8 years agoPost 73
schröttel

rrNovice

Germany

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Here are the parts of my Sylphide E conversion. The motormount was made by a friend on a cnc millingmachine. The stanless steel pinionadapter was made by myself. From the original pinion i cut the thread and press it on the adapter. It is fixed with bearingglue. To hold the batterie the are four crossmembers at the bottom of the chassis.

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02-07-2010 04:44 PM  8 years agoPost 74
ymuraki

rrApprentice

Tampa, FL

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Schrottel,
Looks nice.
So you took top pinion support off? I would put it back on to help motor shaft bearings.

I guess pinion gear coupler is available form JR. Part number 96219.

Nob

Futaba/Hobbico
Morgan Fuel
Peak Aircraft
Kontronik

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02-07-2010 04:54 PM  8 years agoPost 75
ymuraki

rrApprentice

Tampa, FL

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These are drawings from CAD.
HelicopterJohn is going to finish this when he gets his computer

Futaba/Hobbico
Morgan Fuel
Peak Aircraft
Kontronik

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02-07-2010 07:17 PM  8 years agoPost 76
schröttel

rrNovice

Germany

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Ymuraki,

the picture was made before installing the pinion support and the servo support to have a free look at the mechanic.

Your motormount looks great but there is a very important difference to mine. Your constuction is at one level from one end to the other. So, the position of the motor is very low und there is not enough room for the battery below the motor. With my motormount the position of the motor is much higher, so i can place my batterypacks below it, like you see at the picture. The disadvantage is, that i have to build a special pinionsupport because the available are much too long.

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02-10-2010 05:38 PM  8 years agoPost 77
Stolla

rrKey Veteran

Port elizabeth South Africa

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Hey Schröttel

How you like my mount!? You guys convinced me to go back to e-power. I'm using stock gearing with actro 32-4 on 12 s though. What scorpion kv are you using and is it stock gearing as well ? Also flight times headspeed etc?
I just tried the Hyperion 5500 35c 6s's for fit and they do with plenty room left under the motor so will do some flying soon, once i get the western robotics bec for the powerjazz.

Common sense may not be common after all

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02-10-2010 07:12 PM  8 years agoPost 78
schröttel

rrNovice

Germany

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Hi Stolla,

thanks again for your CAD data of the motormount. After a few little changes to the mount my Sylphide runs perfect. I use a 500 KV motor with the stock gearing (1:8).

My flighttimes are 12 min. in hover (1.500 rpm) and 6 min. in acrobatic (2.000 rpm) with a 12s 5000 mah battery.I use a Jeti Spin 99 ESC and a simple 4 cell nimh battery for the receiver. Next i will try the new 20 amp castle creation BEC to reduce the weight. Currently i only fly my Sylphide and my Vibe 90SG is sleeping in the cellar.

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02-11-2010 06:19 AM  8 years agoPost 79
Stolla

rrKey Veteran

Port elizabeth South Africa

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Would you say the 500 kv motor is a good choice on stock gearing taking into consideration it does not operate at max rpm efficiency.
I know usually a higher kv motor of the same brand has more power than a lower one but as the scorpions are strong perhaps the 500 is a good choice.
Do you experience any bogging issues at all ?

Common sense may not be common after all

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02-11-2010 04:06 PM  8 years agoPost 80
schröttel

rrNovice

Germany

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The motor and esc staying cool and the headspeed is very constant.

So i think the motor is not a bad choice. Perhaps i will try a 450KV motor in the future.

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