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HomeAircraftHelicopterAlignT-REX 700N › 700 Exploded today/POLL how many have had this happen??
01-21-2010 09:05 PM  8 years agoPost 261
classic

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Alan SR. I saw it happen on a new heli with 3 flights on it. And as to replacing spindles every 20 gallons or so, Really??

Real smart. Imply in your comment that it is most likely the fault of all of the pilots who have had this happen to them instead of addressing an ovious faulty manufacturing defect. What a lack of professionalism.

I have been flying for over 15 years and that is the FIRST time I have ever heard that a spindle should be considered a "wear item" on a rc heli. Now if the heli was in a crash then replacement should allways be done, at least that is how I repair my helis after a crash, new main and spindle regardless of being bent or not. But implying that replacing the spindle as just part of routine mantance, could you point out where in the align manual it sugests that?
I look forward to your reply AJ sr.
IF it does say that the spindle should be replaced then I will retract my statements, but I have to wonder if it doesn't specifically say that the spindle should be replaced as part of ruoteine maintance, will you retract yours??

Even if it only happens on one percent of the helis sold, align should still take care of those customers who it happened to instead having their reps and their daddys disrespecting them by impyling that it was somehow thier fault or at least trying to imply majority blame that way.
It sure wouldn't cost them near as much as this bad publicity does.

Which is worse, ignorance or apathy? I don't know and I don't care!

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01-21-2010 09:53 PM  8 years agoPost 262
elmobad

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chicago IL

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First of all I am still going to fly my new (being built now) 700. I know I will love it. The problem is that, this is a problem, that should not be a problem. Here is where this is going it just a matter of time. Just because at this point there has been no injurys is great, but unless these problem is addressed by Align. One day there will be a post about some getting hurt or worse. So why is it not being taken care of. I know I dont want to be the pilot or sectator who gets injured by this "little issue" of a 690mm+ blade lunching at me, or the pilot whos 700 self destructs midair and hurts some one or worse. I dont think this should be swepted under the table.

My two cents

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01-21-2010 10:11 PM  8 years agoPost 263
Alan Szabo Sr

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Las Vegas, Nevada

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IF it does say that the spindle should be replaced then I will retract my statements, but I have to wonder if it doesn't specifically say that the spindle should be replaced as part of ruoteine maintance, will you retract yours??
CJames Im just using common sense. Since I dont have a manual in front of me does it say to change the dampners when the head starts to wobble, or is that common sense and knowledge we all learn and pass on to new pilots.

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01-21-2010 10:18 PM  8 years agoPost 264
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I didn't mention the dampners, I said the "spindle".

Of course common sense is to replace dampners when they are worn out. I never said they weren't Alan.

Besides, you know and I know that spindles are not considered a wear item in any major manufacturers list of wear items that need periodic replacement, so why not just admit you threw that out there trying to place or re-direct blame on the pilots, you know, the guys who actually paid for their helis and who have a right to expect a certain quality standard?

Which is worse, ignorance or apathy? I don't know and I don't care!

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01-21-2010 10:57 PM  8 years agoPost 265
gouki

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philippines

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my heli is from a very reputable manufacturer and even though it is only a 50size, it is written in the manual in bold letters that the whole feathering bolt and spindle should be changed regularly what more if it were a 90size machine?

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01-21-2010 11:41 PM  8 years agoPost 266
philip 01

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it should all work out as long as someone doesn't end up with a 710mm carbon fibe blade stuck in an eye socket.

some lawyer out there would have a field day with that one. probably a slam dunk.

some of the 700 fliers out here are flying their 700's with a full face motorcycle helmet and face sheild. the rest of us get down behind the cars.

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01-21-2010 11:58 PM  8 years agoPost 267
rudyy

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E. Amherst, NY

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it should all work out as long as someone doesn't end up with a 710mm carbon fibe blade stuck in an eye socket.
If it really happens and is found to be caused by the defect bolt as discussed here, can Align be sued for $$?

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01-22-2010 12:02 AM  8 years agoPost 268
philip 01

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generally the attorney is going to go after who ever has the most money to lose.

probably a combination on manufacturer, or manufacturers, home owners policy, if one is involved, ama/property owner etc.

it'd potentially be a big production.

took an aviation law class years ago. it was interesting. a big part of why aircraft are so exspensive (lawsuits). not sure how exactly it would work in a case like this but it could get ugly.

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01-22-2010 12:07 AM  8 years agoPost 269
natew

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Brattleboro,VT USA

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[quote]you know, the guys who actually paid for their helis and who have a right to expect a certain quality standard?

I'll give that two thumbs up!!! Hit the nail on the head.

Trex 700, Trex 500, Trex 450 Pro

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01-22-2010 12:11 AM  8 years agoPost 270
PC12DRVR

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USA

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some of the 700 fliers out here are flying their 700's with a full face motorcycle helmet and face sheild. the rest of get down behind the cars.
LMAO thanks monkey that's how I feel !

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01-22-2010 12:15 AM  8 years agoPost 271
philip 01

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it's just the way it is. can't find many that want a 710mm carbon blade in the chest.

chances are very slim it will happen but do you want to be "that guy"?

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01-22-2010 12:19 AM  8 years agoPost 272
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I could see the video posted on that T.V show "A 1000 Ways to Die!"

Interesting, I have a 600 manual and a Vibe 50 manual and neither mention anything about replacing it.

The JR Vibe 50 has very detailed instructions about replacing several differant wear items on page 71 but it says nothing about replacing the spindle or bolts for the spindle.

I just found out from Gouki that the new Hirobo model does mention replacing worn spindle bolts, but I am pretty sure that hirobos spindles are not the same thickness or hardness as the Vibes, or T-600s, that was the older Hirobos, the new one I have no idea the thickness. And over the past 15 years of flying, align spindles are the only ones I have ever heard of breaking in flight.

Which is worse, ignorance or apathy? I don't know and I don't care!

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01-22-2010 12:45 AM  8 years agoPost 273
gouki

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philippines

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yup on my 50size hirobo heli they are using 8mm spindles to accommodate the stress of 3d flying

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01-22-2010 01:17 AM  8 years agoPost 274
4cyclic

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Montreal, Can. and northern Vermont

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CJames : 100% agreement on your position .

Yes, I now change spindle bolts every 100 flights even on my 600N. I never, ever done that before.

Life is meaningful flying helis.

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01-22-2010 02:55 AM  8 years agoPost 275
PBusch

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Minnesota

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Wow,what a bummer. Hope you guys get it all figured out.

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01-22-2010 03:55 AM  8 years agoPost 276
Thumpernator

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Senoia, Georgia, USA

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I just received a new spindle and bolt package. I tightened one of the screws all the way down and noticed it didn't go in far enough, leaving a gap between the screw head and the spindle. There is enough room to slide a business card between the bolt and the spindle. Tried several times to get a good picture, but this is the best I could get. Sorry for the quality.

Maybe this is just like the ones that failed. There is no way the bolt head is going to last very long. Of course, I will not be using the Align bolt. Going with the method mentioned in my previous post.

Dave
I keep on thinking, but nothing's happening. Knuk, Knuk, Knuk

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01-22-2010 11:10 AM  8 years agoPost 277
philip 01

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the bolt is bottoming out and may need to be trimmed. trim far enough to let the bolt head do it's job. that is probably the reason the heads are popping off.

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01-22-2010 11:44 AM  8 years agoPost 278
stuartmp74

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Gold Coast, Australia

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Hi All,

My 700le kit has not arrived from the US yet. So I went down to a local hobby store and bought a spindle shaft and bolts.

These are the measurements, measured with a set of Digital Verniers.

Spindle Length = 106.5mm
Spindle Outside Diameter = 10mm (Probably h7 Tolerance)
Spindle Counter Bore Diameter = 6.99mm
Spindle Counter Bore Depth = 3.25mm

Collared socket head screw
Head Diameter = 13.6mm
Collar Diameter = 6.96mm
Collar length = 2.95mm
Screw total length measured from under the head = 16mm

I will take both the Spindle shaft and Collared socket head screw to work next week and check for run-out with by spinning them up on a lathe and using a dial indicator.

From the measurement taken so far it appears that all is OK.

I must admit it does look like the head of the Collared socket head screw does not pull up against face of the Spindle shaft. But when you have a closer look at the end of the spindle shaft you will see that the outer edge of the spindle shaft is chamfered.

This makes it look like the head of the Collared socket head screw does not pull up against face of the Spindle shaft.

As far as movement goes the difference between the OD of the screw and the ID of the spindle shaft on the radius is only 0.015 not much at all.

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01-22-2010 02:13 PM  8 years agoPost 279
Thumpernator

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Senoia, Georgia, USA

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the bolt is bottoming out
This isn't the case, as I can take a regular hardware bolt that is longer and run it down.
the outer edge of the spindle shaft is chamfered.

This makes it look like the head of the Collared socket head screw does not pull up against face of the Spindle shaft.
I know about the chamfered end. But this is not the case. There is a noticable gap that you can slide a business card into. You can really see it easily under a magnifier light.

But thanks for the heads-up.

Dave
I keep on thinking, but nothing's happening. Knuk, Knuk, Knuk

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01-22-2010 02:36 PM  8 years agoPost 280
koppter

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Virginia

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if the logic here was sound, and it isn't, there wouldn't be anything called rc because every component on a model airplane or helicopter can fail, causing injury or death. spitting a blade is no more deadly than an airplane locking out but I don't see anyone staying on the ground because they are too petrified to fly.

hundreds of 700s fly every weekend without incident, but when a couple go in, it's time to sound the alarm.....

waving the liability flag is disingenious - companies carry liability insurance and the cost of product liability is built into the cost of the product or service. If someone does get hurt or killed, the lawywers and engineers come forward and it's settled in court - but only if it can be clearly established that the company shares responsibiliy - and as anyone who has followed the Toyota sticky gas pedal accidents, that's neither cheap or easy. so i doubt that because there is an internet thread anyone at align is running around clamoring for a redesign.

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