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HomeAircraftHelicopterAlignT-REX 700N › 700 Exploded today/POLL how many have had this happen??
01-20-2010 07:32 PM  8 years agoPost 221
jschenck

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La Vista, NE.

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I'm with you on that - the assessment sounds good. If only Align would step in here an address this! I don't think it'd take much for them to make a bolt with a separate washer. They are are the experts on their machine design (we hope) and should be able to address this.

QUK - here is an opportunity!! Make us a spindle threaded to the end and provide high quality bolts. We will buy them!

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01-20-2010 08:41 PM  8 years agoPost 222
basmntdweller

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Indianapolis IN

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Align can't admit faulty design. If they did, then if someone gets hurt by a blade coming off they won't have any defense in court. I wouldn't be surprised if they are looking at the problem and maybe already changed bolt suppliers or bettered their QC. This way liability would have to be proven, not an easy task in a court.

There is no more than a few .0001s clearance between the bearing and the spindle. That is not enough movement to cause any issues with fatigue fracture. The bolt head would have to be out of square with the end of the spindle several .001s and not be tightened enough to bring it square. There is generally enough clearance in threads on a bolt this short to allow the head to square up when it tightens. I am convinced these failures are due to poor quality bolts.

Matt


Stupid people have no idea how stupid they are!!!

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01-20-2010 09:51 PM  8 years agoPost 223
PC12DRVR

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USA

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Well I completely agree the quality of the bolt is the issue, both the alloy used and the production tolerances, but I will tell you this, the bolt I am holding in my hand is out MUCH more than a hundreth of an inch. I can see it with the naked eye. Normally a dial indicator would be required to see a difference that slight, but these are bad, yours might be better. Either way I hope someone at Align is doing something about it.

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01-20-2010 09:55 PM  8 years agoPost 224
classic

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Align can't admit faulty design. If they did, then if someone gets hurt by a blade coming off they won't have any defense in court.
I don't care if they admit it or not, it still would be good business to step and take care of all the guys they screwed who had their helis fly apart in the air! Oviously, it wouldn't take much to step up and take care of their customers by providing so parts to those who its happened too, but we all know they wont.

That is the problem with the chinese heli companies, they have no concept of customer care.
Personally, while I don't want anyone to get hurt, I hope they do get sued.

Which is worse, ignorance or apathy? I don't know and I don't care!

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01-20-2010 10:46 PM  8 years agoPost 225
PC12DRVR

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USA

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Well they don't have to admit anything, I would be happy for them to jump on here and just say they are going to look into it and to sit tight.

Meanwhile I have two almost new 700's I have put all top of the line stuff in worth thousands of dollars, and I am nervous to go fly them now for fear of injury and the financial toll it takes. That is frustration and this is supposed to be fun!! I personally like to keep crashes to minimum, at least 40 gallons or so between, per machine, is not that much to ask.

Even if I decide to actually use these bolts I bought and do the JB weld procedure (which I think sounds good) I am still going to be wondering IF? These bolts are going to hold?? Pretty scary

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01-20-2010 11:42 PM  8 years agoPost 226
hanzuki

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London, Ontario-canada

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Well, I didn't get a chance to visit the engineer who might be able to help us out, but I did talk to the guys at fastenal. They say they can custom make these spindle bolts in a 10.9 grade. The down side is its very expensive and the minimum order is 100pcs. But at least its another avenue to pursue.

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01-21-2010 12:11 AM  8 years agoPost 227
Alan Szabo Jr

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Las Vegas, Nevada

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Trex 700 bolt failures

Hi Alan Szabo Jr

How is it that you can post videos and comments when you are trying to sell something but when there is a problem you say nothing? I emailed you since your name is listed on the box for the kit as one of the designers and I got no response. If I had a way to contact Jason and Lukas I would do the same. If my name was on something that was failing I would take an interest, I guess thats just me, I care. Or do you have no expert advise to offer in this area? I guess I have to ask you face to face at a fun fly to get your attention?

Your attention would be appreciated, in case you forgot about his here it is. And I can hear all day long from other pilots it has not happened to you or anyone you know it does not mean that it won't. Don't hide man do something you have the connections, ther is an issue with these bolts. Check HF as well I'm sure you have been reading this stuff.

https://rc.runryder.com/t558487p1/

Thanks

XXXX

aka PC12DRVR
XXXX XXXXXXXX

XXX-XXX-XXXX

XXXXXXXXXXXX@XXXXX.XXX
I have received your email and I have read through your post. I have not had any experience with this problem personally and at all the events that I have attended around the world I have never heard or seen anyone else to of had this happen. There for off of "my" personal experience I wouldn't be-able to say its a problem. I dont know what else to tell you.

Alan Szabo Jr.

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01-21-2010 01:06 AM  8 years agoPost 228
elmobad

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chicago IL

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Come on Alan/Align I am not trying to be a hater but, I have never experienced a hurricane, tsunami or avalanche. It does not mean they dont happen, there has been more than enough evidence that they do happen. So....There has been a bunch of Trex 700's that this has happened to, so its not a freak accident. I think that this problem needs to be addressed by more then the unhappy pilots.

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01-21-2010 01:40 AM  8 years agoPost 229
elmobad

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chicago IL

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Please, dont get me wrong I cant wait to get my 700 up in the air. I just think that tis should be addressed. I dont want anyone to get hurt.

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01-21-2010 01:50 AM  8 years agoPost 230
classic

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I have received your email and I have read through your post. I have not had any experience with this problem personally and at all the events that I have attended around the world I have never heard or seen anyone else to of had this happen. There for off of "my" personal experience I wouldn't be-able to say its a problem. I dont know what else to tell you.

Alan Szabo Jr.
I may be mistaken, but I didn't think Alan flew a 700 due to his being sponsored by Avant??
I dont see a regular 700 in his gallery either unless its with aftermarket grips? I know he flies a flybarless but that doesn't use the regular spindle and grips that the stock 700 does.
If I am right then I can see why he wouldn't personally have any experiance with a flybar breaking in flight.
It really isn't his problem, he is just their pilot, I seriously doubt he has any say in weither they compensate customers who have had this problem. Really this is Align's problem.

Which is worse, ignorance or apathy? I don't know and I don't care!

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01-21-2010 02:39 AM  8 years agoPost 231
PC12DRVR

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USA

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Alan,

Thank you for noticing and your response. I sure hope you will pass this info along to the appropriate people at Align, it is obviously a problem for some of us and any diagnosis or help would be greatly appreciated by the entire 700 community,or at least the concerned people reading this thread, there could be a serious injury from this happening at the wrong time to anyone flying a TREX 700. Again I will state , anyone who flies a 700 can say it hasn't happpened to them, but anyone who takes this sport seriously will take the safety of others and themselves into consideration, so I hope Align will help us .
It really isn't his problem, he is just their pilot, I seriously doubt he has any say in weither they compensate customers who have had this problem. Really this is Align's problem.
Actually he is not just their pilot , his signature is on the box as one of the designers. And as a sponsored rep, it is in his interest to see that this is noted and Align is made aware of it.

Hanzuki

You can go to Lowes and get a grade 12.9 M6x12-30 as you choose and buy them two at a time.

For anyone who is wondering grade 12.9 steel is rated at 1220 Mpa which is the tensile strength, this is equal to 177,000 psi, it is one of the strongest steels you can get, as for stainless the highest grade is 18-8 which is only rated normally to 100,000 psi so as you can see regular steel alloy is much stronger.

Guys I still stand by the 700 as a great heli and overall design, and I am not going to abandon mine, this issue has to be addressed however, I take safety seriously as I'm sure anyone interested in reading this thread does.

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01-21-2010 02:57 AM  8 years agoPost 232
rudyy

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E. Amherst, NY

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Meanwhile I have two almost new 700's I have put all top of the line stuff in worth thousands of dollars
Well, you can sell your two 700s for a Hirobo Turbulence which is made of much high quality parts with great customer support, and you will be out of the pain.

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01-21-2010 03:13 AM  8 years agoPost 233
natew

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Brattleboro,VT USA

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Alright Joel...you got him to chime in here!! bet it will be his last too! Ever sinse the beggining of this thread I've been following and let me just say that everytime I change my spindle for whatever reason I dont want to have to whip out the jb weld, even though a good idea what a pain in the a$$...the few times I've been flying this winter I've really been visualizing that dart in the head on take off and landings when your forced to bring it in close...no thanks this sucks...hey if I was QUK I'd be all over this I'd buy em right out of stock I dont care if I only needed 2 for the life of this heli...thats how bad we want em...hope someone gets on this I think now the word is starting to get out there, you know it is. I just wonder how long it will take. I'm just chiming in so everyone whos anybody knows we're still waiting for some input here.
I'm just crossing my fingers that my next post wont add me to the poll! keep on them man! I like your email to Szabo by the way Just a thought here...maybe the pros aren't seeing this happen cause their crashing more than we are and they dont have a chance to fail I know I'm not flying like that if I was I'd prob. be replacing the spindle once a week.

BTW- the 700 is a great heli

Trex 700, Trex 500, Trex 450 Pro

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01-21-2010 03:19 AM  8 years agoPost 234
jschenck

rrProfessor

La Vista, NE.

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Alan - Thank you for responding here!

I do wonder if perhaps you could help get some visibility within Align to this issue. If we had someone at Align and just ask for the spindles and bolts from those that have experienced the failures then they could analyze them and publish their own conclusion.

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01-21-2010 03:19 AM  8 years agoPost 235
classic

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And as a sponsored rep, it is in his interest to see that this is noted and Align is made aware of it.
I seriously doubt alan or align gives a rat's butt about it you could see the concern in his reply.
I go to a fraction of the fun flies he does and I have seen it happen! So have enough other guys to prove it is a real issue. For him to pretend he has never even heard about it happening before is just not credable.

Think about it, they sell thousands of these helicopters, so 10 or 15 fragment in the air, who cares at align?
Even if someone sues, so what? You would still have to Prove that it was their fault beyond all doubt to win anything in court.

Maybe if they were sued then they would address the issue, but even if they did, they would never admit it.

Sorry, but most of us realize that they just don't care and alan sure as heck doesn't care as long as he gets his check!

Some reps have true class like Curtis Youngblood, but many like alan just don't care about any issues the product they represent may have.

Just because a guy is a decent pilot that doesn't automatically make him a "good" guy. It just makes him somebody that gets a good paycheck.

Which is worse, ignorance or apathy? I don't know and I don't care!

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01-21-2010 03:20 AM  8 years agoPost 236
hanzuki

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London, Ontario-canada

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[quote]
Hanzuki

You can go to Lowes and get a grade 12.9 M6x12-30 as you choose and buy them two at a time.
[end quote]

I, as others have said am concerned with having the 1/4" recess left as an open void by inserting a standard threaded bolt. I have not been able to find a bolt with a similar shoulder on it. I do not have sufficient knowledge to determine if a non-shouldered bolt would be a safer alternative. If someone can report on the capacity of a standard metric cap screw in place of the shouldered bolt with some sort of engineering standpoint then I might consider using said standard fastener. Until then I think a source for higher quality matching fasteners is a must. Or if someone is able to machine hardened steel spindles that are threaded to the end and utilize a standard threaded socket head bolt and washer, similar to the 600 spindle.

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01-21-2010 03:29 AM  8 years agoPost 237
natew

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Brattleboro,VT USA

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+1 for Curtis!! CYE puts out a 90 I'm on it.

[Quote]-Sorry, but most of us realize that they just don't care and alan sure as heck doesn't care as long as he gets his check!
Exactly! I wouldn't thank him for nothing. Thanks for nothing.

[Quote]What else do you want me to say?
Well how about a little more than that

Trex 700, Trex 500, Trex 450 Pro

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01-21-2010 03:36 AM  8 years agoPost 238
Thumpernator

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Senoia, Georgia, USA

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This is actually a great opportunity for Align to make some more money. They could do just like Lycoming does when they find a problem with their engines. Lycoming will issue an Airworthiness Directive (AD) that grounds all affected engines until the AD is complied with. And if it requires a new part, they don't supply it. It's up to the aircraft/engine owner to buy it.

So, Align could issue a warning that grounds all the 700's until the owner installs the new spindle/bolt. The new spindle would have threads all the way to the end and use an 'industry standard' bolt/washer combination.

Forget about any kind of lawsuit against Align. They are in Taiwan..... so good luck with that. Ain't gonna happen.

Dave
I keep on thinking, but nothing's happening. Knuk, Knuk, Knuk

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01-21-2010 03:38 AM  8 years agoPost 239
classic

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Forget about any kind of lawsuit against Align. They are in Taiwan..... so good luck with that. Ain't gonna happen.
I bet they could still sue their American interests, like the main distributors/ or even the American designer whose name is on the box.

Like I said, I really, really hope it happens.

Which is worse, ignorance or apathy? I don't know and I don't care!

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01-21-2010 03:39 AM  8 years agoPost 240
Thumpernator

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Senoia, Georgia, USA

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I have received your email and I have read through your post. I have not had any experience with this problem personally and at all the events that I have attended around the world I have never heard or seen anyone else to of had this happen. There for off of "my" personal experience I wouldn't be-able to say its a problem. I dont know what else to tell you.
Well,,,, you've HEARD about it now.

Dave
I keep on thinking, but nothing's happening. Knuk, Knuk, Knuk

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