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HomeAircraftHelicopterMain Discussion › G10 vs Carbon Fiber
10-21-2009 11:36 PM  8 years agoPost 1
Ironside

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Baltimore, MD

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Can someone tell me the difference between G10 frames and Carbon Fiber frames? Is CF that much stiffer to warrant the price difference?

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10-21-2009 11:39 PM  8 years agoPost 2
jackheli

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Vancouver - Canada

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Depends on the thickness of the frames, of course, but in my opinion generally no, it is not worth it.

You can also run into some interference issues with carbon.

Keep in mind that G10 is not fuel proof, so the best is to CA all the edges before assembly.

It's easy to find an excuse to do wrong. Hard is not to find an excuse to do right.

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10-22-2009 12:47 AM  8 years agoPost 3
hornet dave

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Cedar Rapids, IA USA

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if you like to look at your heli, get carbon frames.

if you like to fly your heli, get G10.

I got a fever! The only prescription is MORE 6HV

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10-22-2009 12:54 AM  8 years agoPost 4
pita

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MO US

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CA is not fuel proof so that would not protect the edges.

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10-22-2009 12:57 AM  8 years agoPost 5
jackheli

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Vancouver - Canada

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CA is not fuel proof so that would not protect the edges.
That's a good point! I wonder why it works

I've had mine like this for years. And before I started sealing the edges with CA I could see the fuel wicking in but not anymore...

It's easy to find an excuse to do wrong. Hard is not to find an excuse to do right.

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10-22-2009 01:24 AM  8 years agoPost 6
46Taylorcraft

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AZ

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G10 is just as fuelproof as carbon. G10-FR4 (which most frames are made from) are fire retardant level 4 (FR4). The resin used does not interact with nitro or gasoline unless it was left submerged in it for weeks. We routinely soak G10 parts that had just been cut either in Acetone, LT, or MEK, to eat away the glue used to hold the sheets to the CNC tool table. All three are rather volatile chemicals and the G10 is unaffected.

Carbon, for the same thickness, is considerably stiffer than G10. The grade of carbon is also a factor. Most heli frames are 2k. We have been making camera gimbals from much more dense and tighter weave 1k which is stiffer than 2k with not much weight penalty.

Carbon is electrically conductive where as G10 is not.'

I prefer G10 for machinability and cost, but prefer carbon for strength. Ultimately for the type of applications in which carbon and G10 are used in RC helicopters, G10 is a perfectly fine material well up to the task.

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10-22-2009 01:24 AM  8 years agoPost 7
bstock

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Easton, MD.

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Pita - are you sure CA is not fuel proof? Truly am wondering?

You need a solvent like Acetone to dissolve / soften it.

I never thought about sealing the edges of G10 with CA to keep the fuel from wicking into it... but that makes sense. Need to do that on the new frames we installed on the 600.

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10-22-2009 01:55 AM  8 years agoPost 8
GyroFreak

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Orlando Florida ...28N 81W

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Since we are discussing fuel proof:
CF is generally very conductive to electric (Efuel)
G10 is NOT conductive.
(I found out the hard way)

I think about the hereafter. I go somewhere to get something, then wonder what I'm here after ?

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10-22-2009 02:08 AM  8 years agoPost 9
enahs

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Rapid City, SD

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When I built my G10-framed 600N I sealed all the edges with medium CA. My frames never yellowed like so many others without sealed edges.

---------
Shane

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10-22-2009 02:19 AM  8 years agoPost 10
ShuRugal

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Killeen, TX

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are you sure CA is not fuel proof? Truly am wondering?
The principal use of nitromethane is as a stabilizer for chlorinated solvents, which are used in dry cleaning, semiconductor processing, and degreasing. It is also used most effectively as a solvent or dissolving agent for acrylate monomers, such as cyanoacrylates (more commonly known as "super-glue"..
From Wikipedia

AMA 700159

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10-22-2009 03:27 AM  8 years agoPost 11
jackheli

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Vancouver - Canada

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G10 is just as fuelproof as carbon.
Are the Align 600 Sport frames G10? I can post a picture of how fuel proof they are...

It's easy to find an excuse to do wrong. Hard is not to find an excuse to do right.

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10-22-2009 03:38 AM  8 years agoPost 12
bstock

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Easton, MD.

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Good to know... thanks ShuRugal!

Would think I would have known that one... since Dad originally brought CA to the US from Japan... when he started Zap Adhesives yrs ago now.

He originally started Zap for the hobbiest, for assembling balsa wood models easier and faster... but as we all know it took off from there and his company (Pacer Technologies) was soon bottling and packaging it for Ross and Elmers Glue also.

I must have heard nitro was a solvent to CA back when... as it was used allot in building airplanes... but at the time for years Dad and I were building sailplanes... and then I found girls and cars and lost interest in model aviation until I was well into my 30s.

Acetone was the solvent of choice at the shop back then.

Am pretty sure I was the first kid to do the - glue the quarter to the sidewalk trick - way back when.

CA was originally developed by the military... to dress field wounds in battle. (you may have read that in the last issue of RC Heli).

Some people don't realize it... but if you go into your local Dollar store you can usually find and buy 3 tubes of glue for... you guessed it... a dollar (thin & thick).

If you read the package... it is more often than not packaged by Pacer. It is pretty much the exact same glue you buy at the hobby shop and the grocery store, but for more money. The LHS just has more consistancies and types. I can say that now... as Dad sold the business years ago

Think I am still going to seal the edges of my new G10 frames with it... can't hurt. My last set were yellowing... and it looked like bunk to see it. Should cost me about a quarter

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10-22-2009 04:04 AM  8 years agoPost 13
46Taylorcraft

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AZ

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Are the Align 600 Sport frames G10? I can post a picture of how fuel proof they are...
I can't comment on what Align uses, but I can tell you that official G10-FR4 is fuelproof. Don't assume that simply because Align so called "G10" frames are not fuelproof that G10 is not. G10 is "Garolite" of which there are many versions. 8-10 that I can think of off hand. All of them have subtle differences with resins and materials used.

I work with and machine G10 every day and can tell you that G10-FR4 is fuelproof at the levels of exposure to Nitro that RC helicopters and RC cars subject it to.

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10-22-2009 05:55 AM  8 years agoPost 14
jackheli

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Vancouver - Canada

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The bottom line is there are G10s and G10s. So if you are not sure which one you have seal the edges.

It's easy to find an excuse to do wrong. Hard is not to find an excuse to do right.

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10-22-2009 06:18 AM  8 years agoPost 15
Dr.Ben

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Richmond, VA, USA

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I flew MA Fury's with G-10 frames for years and no edge prep. Zero problem, including the base plate which was constantly exposed to both spent and raw glow fuel. Honestly, using anything Align makes as the basis for any generalization about materials is an iffy proposition at best. Quality G-10 shows every indication of being fuel proof for our application.

Asides from greater stiffness and strength, carbon is much lighter than G-10. It's more than just bling.

Ben Minor

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10-22-2009 12:39 PM  8 years agoPost 16
Ironside

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Baltimore, MD

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Which one makes more since to run in gasoline helicopters? If I'm not worried about nitro fuel wicking in, would G10 be the more logical choice? There is also the concern of vibrations from the gasoline engine. For this reason I wonder if carbon fiber would be a better choice?

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10-22-2009 12:58 PM  8 years agoPost 17
MartyH

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USA

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Hornet Dave has a very practical answer. To answer the original post, staight carbon fiber is stiffer than G10 for the same thickness. As Dave said, If you like to look at your heli then carbon has a better look. IF you're going to fly G10 is a more economical choice when it comes to replacements.

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10-22-2009 08:28 PM  8 years agoPost 18
imnxtc

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BC.Canada

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The bottom line is there are G10s and G10s. So if you are not sure which one you have seal the edges.
Yep And they all have different other properties also, not just wether or not they absorb fuel. Some are more rigid then others for the same thickness. This also hold true ith C/F and other materials, as there are also different qualities of C/F, and for that matter aluminum and GRP.

That is why we find that the GRP frames of one manufacturer may even be more rigid then the C/F frames of another.

Judging something simply by the generic type description of the material it is made from, can be very misleading when applied to R/C helicopters.

As for a discussion on best rigidity, fuel proofing, electrical conduction and user friendliness to servo wires, the best choice for all of these qualities is the proper type of aluminum plate, that is properly anodized.

But of course, aluminum is too low tech to be attractive from a marketing point of view.

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10-25-2009 04:10 PM  8 years agoPost 19
billiano

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Greece ,Patras

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But we all pay that much for helies so...we want to show them off.
So CF goes for me..I had to be honest

Esprit Model Flight Team
Kasama Srimok 90N FBL
TDR Rigid 90

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10-25-2009 04:17 PM  8 years agoPost 20
GMPheli

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W. Bridgewater, MA USA

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I have used fuel in the past as a CA debonder

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HomeAircraftHelicopterMain Discussion › G10 vs Carbon Fiber
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