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HomeAircraftHelicopterAudacity Models P6 Pantera - Tiger 50 › Why Change Brands?
10-21-2009 07:55 PM  8 years agoPost 1
nfdheli

rrNovice

Kendallville, IN

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Like others on this sight I think about other brands of helicopters. What would fly better, all metal parts, something other than plastic frames, etc.

Today I was flying the Pantera and and the engine went wild. I landed and found the sprag clutch had failed. Well, things do fail in time and the clutch owed me nothing after maybe 200 flights.

Went home and opened my spare kit and replaced the clutch. Flying in 1/2 hour!

What other brand can a pilot afford buy and keep 100% replacement parts and keep flying.

In my eyes not a bad deal. Big bang for the buck. Does more than I will ever be able to handle. Maybe another heli in the spring but always a Pantera to keep me in the air.

Richard

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10-21-2009 11:33 PM  8 years agoPost 2
MartyH

rrProfessor

USA

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To answer your question, there are plenty of others you could do the same with. Not taking anything away from the Pantera but the Raptor would be ahead of the Pantera in my book due to the numerous and varied choices for parts. The Frenzy which also shares a lot of Raptor parts wouldnt be a bad choice either.

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10-22-2009 06:05 AM  8 years agoPost 3
pita

rrApprentice

MO US

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It is a good thing you had a spare clutch because it would take $25 to buy a new one. I was looking at a new canopy and wind screen for my Pantera today and JB wants $53 for a plastic one. That is how what it takes to buy a FRP one for my Vibe. I do not understand why JB charges the same for parts for the Pantera as it takes for a Vibe. All of the Pantera parts from JB should be half of what he wants for them. I always have to look at other brands for parts for the Pantera when I need them. I can not see charging the same or more for parts for a $200 heli as others do for a $600 heli. That goes against the natural law of things. I like my Pantera but it is not a very green heli because JB wants you to throw it in the trash when it breaks and take another one out of the box instead of fixing them. I would love nothing more than to be able to buy replacement parts at an appropriate price for the heli.

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10-22-2009 02:32 PM  8 years agoPost 4
MartyH

rrProfessor

USA

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Well, originally we were finding substitute parts for our Panteras when parts were not available from JB. It sounds like that'll further be spurred on by replacement parts cost. We know a lot of the RJX parts fit. I'm not a RJX heli fan necessarily but they have a lot of stuff that works on the Pantera and they're available as bling too. full metal swashplate, metal tail, washout base and arms, headblock and grips. Really, $53 for the plastic canopy? That has to be a mistake.

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10-22-2009 04:35 PM  8 years agoPost 5
The Dude II

rrVeteran

IN - USA

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Real simple...2 for $300.

lotta ins, lotta outs

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10-22-2009 05:17 PM  8 years agoPost 6
pita

rrApprentice

MO US

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On JB's web site "Canopy, HDPE, Pantera 38.99" plus the "Windscreen, Pantera 50 14.99" comes to $53.98. I needed a counter gear and the web site states "Counter Gear (Tail Drive Pinion), P50 $26.99". It is just hard for me to think about paying those prices. Don't get me wrong I have followed JB for years and I love his products and I think he is a great guy. I also love the design of the Pantera and think it is a great flying heli. I also think he is doing a great service to sell his birds for two for $300 and I would love to buy two more when my paypal account can stand it, however, I just get upset and discouraged when I need a replacement part and negitive thinking sets in.

Sorry JB

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10-27-2009 03:36 AM  8 years agoPost 7
billm

rrElite Veteran

Liberty Lake, WA

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Why Change? I for one have only a few problems with the Pantera. Let me tell you this was dealing with the Tiger MKI and MKII. The Pantera has been a solid ship, and I sometimes wonder. Have I been lucky driving the poop out of the ships with minor problems?
Looking into a Turbine ship. should I bitch if it goes into a 10 grand ball of smoke? I don't think so. I will set things up and review everything before flight and have fun.
I have seen new plank flyers crash using a trainer. does that make the ship a bad thing.....?

My name is Billm. Cough, and I'm a Heli Holic

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12-06-2009 03:58 PM  8 years agoPost 8
brown1957

rrNovice

Newton,ks

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Marty,
My Raptor only had a +-9 throw. So after modding the head I now have a +-15. This is what the Pantera has out of the box.

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12-07-2009 01:22 PM  8 years agoPost 9
ProModeler

rrElite Veteran

Sanford, FL (Orlando area)

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MartyH wrote in part . . . Well, originally we were finding substitute parts for our Panteras when parts were not available from JB.

I believe you are mistaken. Can you cite an example where Pantera parts were not in stock? Please show us proof you were grounded due to lack of parts!

Meanwhile, with respect to pita,

Would you really prefer to fork over +50 bucks for a fiberglass canopy, which is often, if not usually destroyed in a crash . . . while a plastic one takes a lickin' and comes back for more?

Both can be painted and if the paint job is damaged in a crash, so what? Spray on some paint remover and start over because this harsh chemical won't hurt it! With a fiberglass canopy it's not so easy.

Further to this, parts costs are also a function of how often they're sold. The simple fact is an HDPE canopy is so tough we don't sell many - this is reality. Consequently, they cost what they cost because they're tough! Should we really be penalized for creating a more durable product?

Anyway, never feel sorry for what you write when it's what you feel. Frankly, as long as you have an open mind, e.g. are not prejudiced or blind to the facts, it means when things are explained more fully perhaps you may change your mind! I appreciate having the opportunity to discuss it with you <g>

Finally, brown1957, thanks for pointing out a difference in pitch range. You may be interested in knowing a stock Pantera actually has a 30° pitch range (-15° to +15°), but we appreciate your observation.


John Beech
AMA # 47381
IRCHA #745

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12-11-2009 12:13 PM  8 years agoPost 10
MartyH

rrProfessor

USA

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John, Can you EVER let me express a friggen opinion without telling me how wrong I am? That right there, YOU are the reason I can hardly stand to even look at my one remaining Pantera any more.
In terms or parts not available, I'll start with the swashplate. On my very first of 4 Panteras I owned, the swashplate had so much slop in it, it was nearly unflyable. You and I discussed this and you said they were all going to be like this, it was some sort of design bla bla bla and that unless I could feel the slop in flight, not to worry about it. Well, I did feel it and you didnt have the metal swash available so we found that the Quick UK metal swash for the Hirobo EVO 50 (non ccpm) version fit perfectly. We also found that the RJX metal swash works too.
Then there was the tail issue. When I lost TWO of your helis due to tossing blades, you were clear in laying blame at my feet and insisted this wasnt happening to anyone else. So, I had to go looking for a tail assembly that would stay together. Other heli's tails worked out great. THEN, you come up with an upgraded grip. You redeigned the grip and beefed up the design right in the area where I broke the grips. Awwe, just for little 'ol me (since you claim I'm the only one who threw tail blades)? Then, the truth comes out and more people come forward. I have never thrown a blade on ANY other heli I have owned so it must be only on your helis that I dont know how to tighten a blade grip. Funny, the one Pantera that I still have has the stock Pantera assembly on it and has never given me any trouble. There are more examples but I'm not wasting my breath.

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12-11-2009 12:16 PM  8 years agoPost 11
MartyH

rrProfessor

USA

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Brown,

Just because you can get more throw doesnt make one heli better than the other. It can make one more suitable for a given purpose, but not better just based on THAT spec. I couldnt use 15 degrees. I'd either bog the head down or would simply never be flying a manuever that would use it anyhow. If you had a need for 15 degrees then I'd say in your case, the Pantera might be a better choice in that instance.

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12-11-2009 02:29 PM  8 years agoPost 12
ProModeler

rrElite Veteran

Sanford, FL (Orlando area)

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This is a contiuation of what should be a private matter.

There you go again Marty, running your mouth but not telling the truth. Previously, you said you were grounded by lack of parts, which isn't true, not then, not ever! However, as usual, you meander all over the place without backing up your words in the hopes nobody will notice.

First
a) You didn't like the stock swashplate, and replaced it with another brand's. You never liked the stock swashplate and bought a bunch of our aluminum swashplates. The day I didn't have them and told you I was unlikely to make more, you got all pissy with me about it because you didn't like my reason (I actually have this in my customer notes within the computer about you). Nevertheless, the original swashplate works fine for most folks and the original has never been out of stock, so nobody is grounded as you claim except by choice!

Further to the ProModeler aluminum swashplate; we made a run of them to judge interest and haven't made them again. Why? It's because as I told you then - when it came time to actually buy, most folks were satisfied to fly with the regular swashplate! Yes, I agree you thought the orignal junk (and probably bought more of these aluminum ones than anyone else). But whether you're just more particular because you're a better pilot I, nevertheless, certainly wasn't going to argue with you about it. It's not my job, e.g. mine just to try and make you happy!

Anyway, this doesn't change the facts, e.g. a swashplate is available and if you want an optional one doesn't matter because you could still fly! By the way, it was March 5, 2008 when you placed a backorder for another of these, knowing you in effect were going on a waiting list because I told you the same thing then and you got all pissy, which is when I made the note. So nobody is, or has ever been, grounded for lack of parts as you claim! You should stop repeating this.

Second, regarding the 1st generation tail grips, again you bring up an issue that a) was resolved long ago, and b) said grips were never out of stock.

Frankly, the leverage of an M3 steel bolt and nut is enormous. Moreover, it can easily destroy polymer parts if a modicum of care isn't exercised. Anyway, sure we beefed it up to make the 2nd generation tail grip, but even back then, we didn't hide from the issue. Instead, we showed (and it's still in the manual) how the grips might crack if overtightened and cautioned folks to be careful.

As for you being the only one with the issue, we ultimately ended up with about 20 guys - out of 4000, or less that 0.05% of customers - whom experienced a tail grip failure. I didn't want to embarrass you by suggesting you never make a mistake because of how you overreacted when I wondered out loud on the phone, but let me say this instead. I saw your prior crash on the computer and suspected this may have played a role and thus, it wasn't as simple a case as perhaps having overtighten a tail grip bolt (after all, nobody is perfect and everybody's poop stinks). However, seriously, what are the odds of it happening to you twice and you playing a 0% role? Like I said, I try to give a guy the benefit of the doubt, but sometimes I wonder.

Oh, and let me tell you something else. When you, or anybody calls, there's a process, which is pretty much loaded in the customer's favor. For example, as policy we don't make anybody wait on our first receiving their defective part because unlike others, we ship out on their say so! Don't believe me? Ask anybody who has called and said, "I" have a problem with such-and-such a part!" and see if I don't immediately ship a replacement while simulataneously making a note to call them back if I haven't received their defective part back in two weeks (I have a computer to nag me about this). It's because we always, as a matter of a routine good business practice, strive for a satisfied customer . . . it's our goal to try to make it right! That said, only God is perfect and we're just doing our best.

Further to this, I wager if anyone asks about a product, be it the quality, the availability of parts, and especially service (both before and after the sale) our reputation is as good as any and probably better than most!

But back to you (since it's always about you). When you called on November 19, 2008 to order a set of grips (for the only time), and complained about the tail grip failure, I noted you'd had a pretty good crash in April 08, 2008 (where you'd ordered a main frame, tail boom, plus most tellingly, a tail rotor hub). Everyone knows I'm a numbers guy, so when you crashed and called to allege it was due to a tail grip failure (said issue being already noted in the manual), surely you realize I would routinely check your customer record for anything, which might help detemrine other causes? Look, what folks do routinely is forget about prior crashes as a possible cause for a subsequent failure, it's human nature, but computers don't forget (so we use them as a busienss tool to try and spot trends)! Again, this is just a good way to run your business, which is what we do as a matter of course.

Anyway, I look to see what you bought from us (another thing computers are good for because I am always interested in trends, be they sales or failures). That's when you got all huffy with me - for daring to wonder if the perfect-Marty had possibly made a mistake and overtightened the tail blade grip bolts overly much (remember, a prior crash is within your customer record of purchases).

Finally, on a personal note, MartyH, you say you've been shedding yourself of my product because of me. Fine, in that case, I'll bluntly admit I'll be delighted when you're down to zero because frankly, in the 17 years I've been in business, I've learned there are a few folks whom you just cannot satisfy. I had a girlfriend like that once and was delighted when she was history too.

Anyway, in business there's a certain class of customers where the best thing to happen is see them go (after all, fair-is-fair and someone else should reap the joys of having you as a customer for a while). Moreover, when the happy day comes, I'll not just say, "Good riddence!", but maybe I'll dance a little jig to boot.

Please don't let the grass grow under your feet!

My 2¢


John Beech
AMA # 47381
IRCHA #745

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12-11-2009 10:41 PM  8 years agoPost 13
jermo

rrNovice

Fort Mill, SC - USA

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MartyH,
I'm getting into Nitro birds and after alot of reading, watching vids, experience at the field..etc I'm going Pantera. If you want to help a guy out feel free to send me your bird if you don't want it.

Thanks in advance either way.
Jerry

Jermo

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12-12-2009 11:19 AM  8 years agoPost 14
The Dude II

rrVeteran

IN - USA

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WOW...this was a huge waste of MY TIME.
Thanks.

I'm pissed enough of all this petty-behavior.

Recall what someone said to me at IRCHA 2007..."It's easier to beg for forgiveness than ask permission."

All, please try to take the high road in LIFE...ultimately it does pay-off.

As someone wiser than the first once said..."If you're not part of the solution, than get out of the way."

F-n sad, walking away.

lotta ins, lotta outs

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12-12-2009 03:24 PM  8 years agoPost 15
nfdheli

rrNovice

Kendallville, IN

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What did I get started?

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12-12-2009 06:24 PM  8 years agoPost 16
Life_Nerd

rrVeteran

USA

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What Gus (Dude II) said
+1

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12-12-2009 07:14 PM  8 years agoPost 17
petmotel

rrKey Veteran

DeKalb, IL.

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What did I get started?
nfdheli: please don't feel like you started anything, or said anything wrong. Your question, and most of the ensuing replies were a perfectly good example of what this forum is supposed to be. That would be a venue for heli enthusiasts to share their experiences.

Unfortunately there are also those who seem unable to restrain emotional response from their posts. All too common, and typical in the Audacity forums for some unknown reason.

It's a real shame too, because there are some very knowledgeable, and independent thinking types of folks that regularly contribute to these threads.

As for the original question "Why Change Brands?", that's simple! Some feel variety is the spice of life .

One thing to consider, however, and I've heard this mentioned by some very talented pilots, is that the learning curve is significantly enhanced when you do the majority of your flying on the same model.
Due to the consistent performance of flying the same model, your confidence in knowing how that model will react increases the likelihood of success when trying new things.

Jay

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12-13-2009 01:51 PM  8 years agoPost 18
MartyH

rrProfessor

USA

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Sent you a PM Jermo about buying my Pantera. I'd love to work something out with you if you are serious.

For anyone else, I'd be willing to sell my Pantera 50 airframe with Audacity metal hub, hard dampeners, RJX metal swash, RJX metal washout assembly, Audacity 3D fins and Canopy FX custom painted fiberglass canopy for $500 shipped in the 48 states. The picture shows the old stock vertical fin. I only recently installed both Audacity 3D fins.

This is roughly what I have in it:

Kit $369 ($199 these days)
swash $65
washout $35
dampers $10
Fins $10
hub $35
canopy $70 + paint + a bunch of shipping back/forth $240

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12-13-2009 02:23 PM  8 years agoPost 19
ProModeler

rrElite Veteran

Sanford, FL (Orlando area)

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Nice looking bird - fair deal too.


John Beech
AMA # 47381
IRCHA #745

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12-14-2009 12:30 AM  8 years agoPost 20
jermo

rrNovice

Fort Mill, SC - USA

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very good deal. I'll be sticking with stock poly parts for a while due to startup costs. This will be my first Nitro so I'm hoping to buy before the buy one get one half price is off. Spares and such.

If I were a hot 3D pilot looking for a blinged bird yours would fit the bill nicely.

Your profile says Cincanati but I thought you said in PM you are outside the states?

Jermo

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HomeAircraftHelicopterAudacity Models P6 Pantera - Tiger 50 › Why Change Brands?
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