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HomeAircraftHelicopterFlybarless Rotor Head SystemsOther › Crash with vbar / VStabi
10-21-2009 10:24 PM  8 years agoPost 21
Wolfgang

rrNovice

Germany

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ithout more information, video, background it seems impossible to make a determination for you on your event.
You dont´t understand me ... my first post ... please read again.

My question:
am now accumulate any informations from other pilot they have similar problems. Importend is, my infos there are accumulate to today (five cases are known) it is only the new hardware version with the 4 software. Now to this day there are no problems with the old aluminium sensor type and 4 software.

I am very pleased to hear from anyone objective cases.
is not the question about WHY the heli crash, this is clear. This post is not to search the error while its impossible to check up the vbar´s software in the cpu > no log available

This post is to accumulate some other similar problems!
One of the guys at LA3D had a similar failure where about a minute into his flight it slowly rolled left aileron and he had no control. It was a brand new Logo 600 and he had about 7 flights on it through the day with no issues. I could tell he didn't have it and he even said so half way through. No inputs he gave had any affect at all. He's a very good 3D pilot so if he still had control of two other servos we would have seen him trying to correct.

Upon walking up to his heli the first I looked at was the sensor cable, which was plugged in, and a solid light on his Spektrum rx. We were not able to definitively find a root cause to the lockup at the time.

Mikado
Edge Blades
Hi Big Fil,

thanks a lot for your informations!!

I think, when the heli was new, the vbar was also new with hardware/software version 4. Is this correct!

Your are know, the pilot using bankswitching in the vbar! I think alwyas so!

Greetings

Wolfgang

(6 cases)

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10-21-2009 11:35 PM  8 years agoPost 22
Big Fil

rrKey Veteran

Santa Rosa, CA

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Something I need to add about the person who crashed at LA3D. His helicopter was new, but the Vbar itself was not. He had been running it succesfully on another bird prior to moving it over. In addition he has 2 other units on other birds that have had no issues. At this time he does not believe it is a Vbar issue, and has mentioned possibly changing out his radio after some lockouts on some foamies. I believe he is also looking into upgrading his power system to feed the electronics.

As far as bank switching he did not have it setup.

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HomeAircraftHelicopterFlybarless Rotor Head SystemsOther › Crash with vbar / VStabi
10-22-2009 01:52 AM  8 years ago •• Post 23 ••
Big Fil

rrKey Veteran

Santa Rosa, CA

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is not the question about WHY the heli crash, this is clear. This post is not to search the error while its impossible to check up the vbar´s software in the cpu > no log available
When reading the original post it seemed as if you were trying to have an open minded discussion as to the cause of the issue. As others have brought up there are many issues and possibilities for what could have happened. It's as easy to blame an issue on the Vbar as it would be to blame it on another system. I hope you weren't under the impression that the problem in the case I mentioned was believed to definitively be the caused by the Vbar. As mentioned in my previous post the owner believes the problem to lie elsewhere and is in fact running that Vbar in the same bird.

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10-22-2009 10:03 AM  8 years agoPost 24
OICU812

rrMaster

Edson, Alberta, Canada

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~~EDIT~~

Wolfgang, I am not feeding this anymore.

Your thread is abit senseless as you are not scouting out reason or assitance from those who wish to help you with your issue. This thread smells as you say "fishy".

It is best to have an open mind in any venture of life, no one is perfect and things can be overlooked, it appears you feel you have no chance of overlooking anything, abit "not open" minded imho, be well.

Shawn

...Once upon a time there were Nitros, flybars and frequency pins...

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10-22-2009 10:51 PM  8 years agoPost 25
Wolfgang

rrNovice

Germany

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Shawn,

you are right about think of live and open mind ... 100% agree.

But why i to be exercised is, many guys will find the problem. This was not the reason for my post. About my post it is find other pilots with similar problems!

No more else.

Greeting

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10-23-2009 04:27 AM  8 years agoPost 26
OICU812

rrMaster

Edson, Alberta, Canada

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Fair enough Wolfgang, but I must assume you realize how hard it is to certainly point at one object as being cause correct?

In simplicity let me say and ask you this sir.

You say as you are or have been sending in some other electronics to for example Futaba etc to check servos and that if they say to you they have done their tests and show a servo or servo(s) to be in 100% good order you will accept this correct?

On the same stroke of the pen, if you have sent your V-stabi unit to Mikado and it has come out as being 100% in functional order without success of being able to reproduce what you saw with professional equipment designed to test such things, is that not acceptable to assume that the unit is in fact fine and we should source out your options?

One can claim all they want, but again sir no disrespect but it is difficult without video and if unit shows it is good, high chances are it is good.

I would like to cite you an example of my own, while not a Mikado product a story similar in luck as it would have it.

A few years back I had a failure of lever arm on a Raptor. While upset and knowing in "belief of mine" it had caused the crash "in my belief" there was no chance of asking for compensation. Reality was the heli had been new, was there a defect from factory in slight order of the mold of this lever?, "maybe..". However may I have over tightened the lever?, could I have stressed it any way in other flights from mild crashes?, maybe in fact I had?..who knows, therefore I moved on and honestly this in the hobby is way it goes. Sometimes we are lucky to find and know the problem or "source-root" of problem, sometimes we are not. When something happens, regardless of the event or equipment, or brand if you can not have proof, if the manufacturer in good confidence can not reproduce the failure then there is nothing as a hobbyist or consumer one can honsetly more expect, can you agree on this Wolfgang?

This is a serious product for Mikado pioneering the flybarless system, I would feel if they say the unit checked out that is truth and we should work together to see if their are other problems, if you feel this is not the case then I am not sure how to further assist you in this manner Wolfgang, best regards and be well.

...Once upon a time there were Nitros, flybars and frequency pins...

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10-23-2009 11:20 PM  8 years agoPost 27
Wolfgang

rrNovice

Germany

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Hi Shawn,

basically i agrre with you.

But let me tell, why this is a vbar problem:

1. In the moment, when the heli roll over the left side to the ground, as if was controlled from the transmitter. Realy clear as if the stick moved! No drift on nick or tail, realy clear. And realy slow, not quick! I have time enough to move the stick to the right side, unfortunately no response are comming. (But i shutdown the turbine remote)

2. The vbar System is completed controlled the swash plate and to act as a swash plate mixer. >It is only the one system with a logic. No servo, receiver, batterie switch ... have the logic for a swash plate mixer (for my case 90° > four servos)

If one servo fail on 90° linkage, normaly the rest of the are enough to controlled the heli.

Now we are again at the point why the heli crash ... my desire is to collecting other cases for similar problem from other pilots.

Best Regards

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10-24-2009 06:23 AM  8 years agoPost 28
OICU812

rrMaster

Edson, Alberta, Canada

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So you are saying here that even though the V-Stabi tested out 100% to be ok, you do not trust that determination?, but you will trust others "futaba" etc who tested your servos etc? That does not make sense Wolfgang, what is the motive here sir?

...Once upon a time there were Nitros, flybars and frequency pins...

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10-24-2009 06:51 AM  8 years agoPost 29
WIRLYBIRD

rrVeteran

CAPE TOWN / SOUTH AFRICA.

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WHAT GOES UP MUST SURELY COME DOWN.

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10-24-2009 02:17 PM  8 years agoPost 30
SpeedVision

rrApprentice

Grand Rapids, MI USA

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That does not make sense Wolfgang, what is the motive here sir?
1. Money?
2. Money?
3. Money?

Which one?

I had a mystery crash on my 600 with a Gyrobot. 2-3 minutes into a flight it rolled right (quickly) and crashed inverted. As I mentioned many posts before, Gyrobot worked fine after, 2 servos were stripped. Replaced the GB with a Vbar and my 3 cyclic servos are sitting in my junk drawer...

If it's about money - It was you that made the decision to add electronic stabilization between your Rx and your cyclic servo's. Accept responsibility for YOUR choice and move on.

If you are convinced that this is a Vbar issue, vote with your wallet and buy another stabi system or free your mind and rebuild with a purely mechanical system. If you go mechanical, I would still replace the servos because you wouldn't want to go through all that trouble and find out it was, in fact, a servo...

Flybarless - The future was yesterday...you in?

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10-25-2009 10:56 PM  8 years agoPost 31
Jeff polisena

rrElite Veteran

westpalmbeachflorida usa

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To me it sounds like a servo or some type of interference is problem and when this happens vbar as it should tries to correct or react to movements and when these directions are not translated the vbar then gets a little crazy . I had a futaba servo with a bad motor cause this and by changing one electrical part after another I found servo.Everyone intrepids things differently so it is hard to say what is issue plus it seems when people find out they forget to post so we can have an idea what to look for . Again I'm only trying to help

PS; Listen to MRMel he is king when it comes to VBar If anyone is here to help it is he.

I stole it ,flew it and gave it back ;)

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10-26-2009 12:24 AM  8 years agoPost 32
Wolfgang

rrNovice

Germany

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If it's about money - It was you that made the decision to add electronic stabilization between your Rx and your cyclic servo's. Accept responsibility for YOUR choice and move on.
I don't mind the cost of the vbar for a 9.000,-€ (euro)heli.

And yes, i fly in future the CH53 without a stabi system on the main rotor.
I fly my BK117 (PHT-3) over 2 years without a vbar with 4-blade main rotor. It´s also works, but when the wind comes a little heavy, it not realy a relaxed flying. Thats the only reason why i use a vbar system in scale helicopters.

Now i am waiting of the results from the futaba service, there check the BLS451 of failures.
So you are saying here that even though the V-Stabi tested out 100% to be ok, you do not trust that determination?, but you will trust others "futaba" etc who tested your servos etc? That does not make sense Wolfgang, what is the motive here sir?
Again, the vbar is the only system between rx and servos/swash plate.

And again, my motive here, is to find pilots with similar problems.
I dont know, how can write clearly.

Greetings/Best Regards

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10-26-2009 01:30 AM  8 years agoPost 33
Jeff polisena

rrElite Veteran

westpalmbeachflorida usa

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We got you , I think people are getting a harsh felling in you typing just for that reason you might not get the correct answers .Be a little more humble not everyone is thick skinned or in your environment and its not their fault you are having issues just trying to help you.Don't get mad at me ,bees like honey

I stole it ,flew it and gave it back ;)

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