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HomeAircraftHelicopterFlybarless Rotor Head SystemsOther › Is it worth it?
10-24-2009 09:49 PM  8 years agoPost 101
Chris Bergen

rrElite Veteran

cassopolis, MI USA

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Ok Jeff, you got me.

I should just accede that YOUR experience with whatever helicopter you fly is MORE and BETTER than MY experience flying MY helicopter.

In NO way is flying FBL w/o electronics better than flying WITH them. All you people just shut up about, quit trying it for yourself, follow what JEFF says.

BTW, I was pinked for the SAME reasons YOU were...

Tounge in cheek of course... LOL..

Chris D. Bergen

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10-24-2009 10:13 PM  8 years agoPost 102
Wimbledon99

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UK

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What's 'PINKED' ?

3D?? No - just another input error!!!

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10-24-2009 10:43 PM  8 years agoPost 103
heli-cuzz

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Pittston, Pa. USA

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That's Mark's favorite color.

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10-24-2009 10:54 PM  8 years agoPost 104
Asid

rrVeteran

uk

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Chris Bergen and the others that fly naked fbl have there own opinion we should respect that. I have just started fbl with vbar and really like it. I will try naked soon. Bottom line is each to their own opinion. Do what makes you happy and respect peoples views and opinions. It is just that an opinion.

If it ain't broke then break it.

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10-24-2009 11:37 PM  8 years agoPost 105
tommytt1

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Mercerville, NJ, USA

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What are you guys saying? Is a three axis system, pilot flight assist?

I made a mistake once, but I was wrong?

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10-25-2009 12:18 AM  8 years agoPost 106
BobOD

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New York- USA

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Well, just to beat a dead horse, no, I don't see gyros as flight assist. It is enhanced control and stability. In other words, it is
-control of the physics of flight
-control over nature
-civility with agression
-Progression of mankind
Just to put it a few different ways.

I do get the notion that a better pilot will be able to handle a less than capable machine...which is what is being suggested here BTW...but that is just plain silly to me. Just my opinion but you might as well fly a clunker just to show how good you are. Doesn't sit well with me. The winner will be the better pilot with the better machine. Always has won and probably always will.

To each his own but I do appreciate the conviction on both sides. It lets me make my own decisions.

Team POP Secret

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10-25-2009 02:28 AM  8 years agoPost 107
Jeff polisena

rrElite Veteran

westpalmbeachflorida usa

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I agree to each his own but still would like to see a kaos or tictoc maybe a tail first hurricane on video without a cheating device or flybar

!$ to @ you win

I stole it ,flew it and gave it back ;)

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10-25-2009 08:28 AM  8 years agoPost 108
alfred

rrVeteran

Australia, New South Wales, Mid North Coast

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I agree to each his own but still would like to see a kaos or tictoc maybe a tail first hurricane on video without a cheating device or flybar

!$ to @ you win
That of course means that you also take off the tail gyro, as it is also a "cheating device".
That should be interesting

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10-25-2009 11:00 AM  8 years agoPost 109
Asid

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uk

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Jeff how can using electronics instead of a flybar be called cheating? it's only a hobby. Electronics that don't use flight stabilisation do not make it easy to fly.

Like Alfred said what's the difference with the tail gyro. You use one don't you? How is that different?

It's a hobby there's no right or wrong just different ways of doing things. Do what makes you happy

If it ain't broke then break it.

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10-25-2009 11:20 AM  8 years agoPost 110
Ronald Thomas

rrMaster

Gainesville, Fl, USA

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For the record
Jeff is in favor of FBL units and does not consider them cheating. He was being sarcastic.......Ron

Team MikadoUSA 480XXTreme, 550SX, 600SX, 700XXTreme, 800XXTreme!!

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10-25-2009 12:17 PM  8 years agoPost 111
Jeff polisena

rrElite Veteran

westpalmbeachflorida usa

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Like they say proof is in the pudding
Talk is cheap
____________________VIDEOS PLEASE________________________

PS:Thanks Ron . I'm not knocking anyone's fun just think there is a big gap on performance level we are talking about .

I stole it ,flew it and gave it back ;)

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10-25-2009 03:50 PM  8 years agoPost 112
Eco8gator

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Palm Beach, FL

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Man my fav. fbl heli was a Raptor 50 Titan. MCCPM and all but it had so many parts and levers and stuff that I got me a few CCPM 90s that feel nice a solid

But since it was said I must throw in this tid bit...since Im pretty sure Im one of the few people in here that know what makes your little black boxes tick

I cant say they are all the same though but they are probably close.

Your cyclic stick controls something called a set point. The set point is how fast/or slow you want your gyro system to rotate the heli around some axis. So the fbl system IS NOT FIGHTING YOU. You tell it to go one speed, and it goes that speed and maintains that speed(pending propper setup). There are other little things mixed in there to remove unwanted oscillations or drifts during certain manuvers but thats more advanced.

Xera Motors
ProBar
Minicopter
Thunder Power

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10-26-2009 02:23 PM  8 years agoPost 113
Chris Bergen

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cassopolis, MI USA

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I don't see it as cheating either, you're replacing one form of stability for another.

For F3C type of flying, some stability is going to be absolutely necessary, be it flybar or electronic.

But for you "Stickbangers" out there, FBL Noe MIGHT be the ticket that raises your "WOW" factor up a couple notches.

Chris D. Bergen

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10-27-2009 03:37 PM  8 years agoPost 114
Chris Bergen

rrElite Veteran

cassopolis, MI USA

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I flew my Tazer yesterday with a set of new blades from ****, 693mm, made specifically FOR FBL applications. As a test, I put the heli in FFF and let go of the stick.

It did NOT pitch up, simply tracked straight across the sky!! This was flying INTO the wind as well. I turned around and flew WITH the wind, again taking my fingers off of the stick in FFF. the heli dropped a little bit, but not in a pitching motion, just lost a little altitude due to flying with the wind and not correcting with collective.

These new blades are slick and clean, hang time in an auto was decent (but not like a V-B****!!),and sounded very good. All in all I give them an "A" for their performance.

This makes the heli fly even more like a Pattern Plane, basically you point the thing where you want it to go, that's where it stays. The tendency to balloon in FFF was gone, no more big loop!!

Further testing and experimenting continues without the worry of ANOTHER electronic device to fail...

Chris D. Bergen

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10-27-2009 03:43 PM  8 years agoPost 115
Eco8gator

rrElite Veteran

Palm Beach, FL

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Its these comments that concern me.

Respected Opinion = Chris Bergan

Opinion = FBL...failure point

I dont know what happend that gave this opinion about the gyro systems out but first of a gasser is one tough place for any electronics package(vibration and high discharge sparks). Maybe in the case of this gasser it may be a good idea to find a way to get the heli to fly good with out stabalization.

C

Xera Motors
ProBar
Minicopter
Thunder Power

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10-27-2009 06:55 PM  8 years agoPost 116
BobOD

rrElite Veteran

New York- USA

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I'm, at the very least, curious how this helicopter seems to defy the laws of physics. But we should really not be making this a bashing match. It's quite interesting.

Team POP Secret

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10-27-2009 07:38 PM  8 years agoPost 117
theflyingman2

rrApprentice

Winter Haven, FL USA

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When I learned to fly nobody I knew had a heading gyro, everyone was using the old Quartz crystal gyro (Pezio). I flew my trex 500 with the mikado flybarless grip extensions kit. I did not use any stabilization on it. The best way I can describe the feel, is like the tail of the pezio gyro holds. it did ok. All I did was hover and do a few figure eights. I think that it would have done light 3d with little or no more adjustments. Just thought I would add that of my experience of "naked Flybarless"

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10-27-2009 09:45 PM  8 years agoPost 118
Chris Bergen

rrElite Veteran

cassopolis, MI USA

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Sorry, should have been more clear, this latest flight with the new blades was with my electric, NOT the Gasser.

I don't know about any "Laws" of physics, maybe they're just Guidelines... Or maybe I just don't know any better...

Without picking at any ONE system, ANYTIME you add more electronics to the mix, you add another electronic failure point.

Regulators fail, servos fail, Rx fail, and now add in another electronic device, it will fail too. I believe Jeff just had one replaced, Mikado stepped up and replaced it in 2 days!! That's GREAT!! However it makes the point. Even the "best" CAN fail.

Don't think that I am AGAINST these systems in any way, They will be required additions on my next generation of camera ships, obviously for stability purposes.

But dialing in the mechanical side of things first will hopefuly make it the e-systems that much better.

Chris D. Bergen

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10-27-2009 11:45 PM  8 years agoPost 119
Eco8gator

rrElite Veteran

Palm Beach, FL

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I 100% agree with this

"But dialing in the mechanical side of things first will hopefuly make it the e-systems that much better."

IMHO extreamly important issue to address during inital setup. If balance, CG, and level swash arnt adjusted accordingly the FBL system eats travel range so you have uneven ranges...this can be an issue if you get into the corners.

Carlo

Xera Motors
ProBar
Minicopter
Thunder Power

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10-31-2009 02:54 AM  8 years agoPost 120
BobOD

rrElite Veteran

New York- USA

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We finally had some nice weather here so I yanked the gyro off and spent the day flying naked FBL. I've done so before actually but this time with the mindset of "let's see what we can do with this". I have to say, it was not quite as bad as I had expected. It definately seemed to be a bit more of a chore but I'm going to spend a little more time getting used to it before I come to any conclusion.

No doubt it was a really nice way to kill an afternoon.

Team POP Secret

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