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09-21-2009 02:03 AM  11 years ago
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rudyy

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E. Amherst, NY

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Help: How to do the hurricane?
I am trying to perform the hurricane in the sim. What I do is that I get the helicopter going up high, do a 180 stall turn and then vertically dive down to maximize the forward speed. Then I pull the elevator to get the helicopter level followed by giving right aileron input to enter the hurricane. Now, I get lost here. Once I enter into the hurricane, what should I do with the collective stick and cyclic stick to keep the helicopter moving in the circle? Do I need to move the rudder?
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09-21-2009 03:48 AM  11 years ago
Spitfire1

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Perth Australia

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Im no expert, Im not sure I really even know what a hurricane is.

I was under the impression it was an inverted backward circle with the tail pointing toward the ground, is this it

If so, I dont undertand the stall turn and comeing down verticly to gather speed, what ive been doing is flying backward inverted then turning away from my self, I find the steeper and harder I turn with lots of collective the more I can keep dipping the tail down, I cant doe it yet without bailing in an ugly fashion out but is this what you mean, on Pheonix demo he calls it a pie dish.

If this is a Hurricane I cant see comeing down vertical nose first being a very good way to enter the manouver, but everyones different.

If this is what you mean, the only way I have been able to do it is keep doing it on the sim, crash, crash, crash, and crash maybe 1000 times, it seems pointless but eventually you do actually start to get it, I started flying inverted backward then turning to come back the other way, after a while you just keep turning and go in a circle.
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09-21-2009 04:12 AM  11 years ago
rudyy

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Spitfire, I think hurricane has different variations like funnel e.g. you can have inverted tail down funnel or the very basic normal nose down funnel. The hurricane I am talking about is the very basic one.
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09-21-2009 07:34 AM  11 years ago
Spitfire1

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Perth Australia

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Im only just starting to do em from inverted backward flight, I could never do one rightside up or nose down, I find backward inverted flying easier than rightside up backward, backward rightside up turns are to much of a head trip for me, not that doing it inverted isent, just not as much.
Im not one of these guys that harps on about "sim sim sim" infact in many ways I think its completely unrealistic, but some of them kind of braintwister things, pie dishes/hurricanes and piroflips I find if you keep trying it on the sim, even though it seems futile, eventualy it does start working.(even if it takes 6 months)
My biggest gripe about the sim is tic tocs or any manouver that utilizes hard collective stops, how anyone can claim it to be anything like a real RC heli just completely astonishes me.
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09-21-2009 02:24 PM  11 years ago
rotormonkey

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Ottawa, ON - Canada

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Just for the sake of clarification: I believe a funnel is when the heli's tail is pointed up or down, and a hurricane is when the tail is following or leading the direction of the heli in a circle.

Anyway, easiest way to get a nose down funnel going (which I believe is what you want) is this:

Enter forward flight. Do a stall turn or whatever.. Max speed really doesn't matter too much.

Give left rudder to get the heli facing you as it whizzes by.

Press forward on the cyclic to get the nose pointed at the ground immediately followed by left cyclic, and a touch of left rudder.

If you immediately start to plummet to the ground when you give left cyclic, you're not giving enough rudder. If you flatten out and go up, you gave too much.

While doing funnels or hurricanes you're always holding just a touch of rudder to keep the tail in line. In fact most of your corrections will probably be centered around the rudder stick.

Believe it or not, you can actually change altitude in a funnel with rudder. If you lead a bit with rudder, you gain altitude. If you lag a little, you'll lose altitude.

Increasing collective can also increase altitude, but it'll also make your funnel/hurricane faster.

Doing a funnel is just like flying forward in a circle (forward hurricane) except you're flying sideways, so you can't just line the tail up with the flight path anymore. You need to get your visual cues another way. So the trick is to try to keep the nose pointed at an imaginary spot on the ground in the center of the circle you're doing.

Good luck.
If it can't hover, it ain't worth flying.
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09-21-2009 02:26 PM  11 years ago
rudyy

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E. Amherst, NY

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I need someone telling me how to do the very basic Hurricane.
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09-21-2009 02:30 PM  11 years ago
Darren Lee

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Woodstock, GA

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My biggest gripe about the sim is tic tocs or any manouver that utilizes hard collective stops, how anyone can claim it to be anything like a real RC heli just completely astonishes me.
What sim do you have? Phoenix does very realistic tic tocs IMO.
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09-21-2009 02:31 PM  11 years ago
rotormonkey

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Ottawa, ON - Canada

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Probably Realflight. I found collective maneuvers are garbage in that sim too. Never tried phoenix personally.

And rudyy: Read above. I've answered your query in detail.
If it can't hover, it ain't worth flying.
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09-21-2009 04:42 PM  11 years ago
Simko

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Erie, PA - USA

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I don't know exactly what it is I'm doing, but on the sim last night I was trying to do a simple stall turn, but instead of using the rudder to turn the heli around at the peak of the stall turn, I accidentally gave it left cyclic which started the heli into a tail-down funnel.

So I kept doing it over and over and got it where I start in FF, go nearly straight up (just a little bit of angle so that the tail is pointed towards the center of the funnel) then give it left or right cyclic to start the funnel and then adjust using forward/back cyclic to keep the funnel from dropping too fast or from leveling out.

Might not be a true 'funnel', but it looks pretty cool on the sim.
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09-21-2009 05:03 PM  11 years ago
rudyy

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E. Amherst, NY

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I don't know exactly what it is I'm doing, but on the sim last night I was trying to do a simple stall turn, but instead of using the rudder to turn the heli around at the peak of the stall turn, I accidentally gave it left cyclic which started the heli into a tail-down funnel.

So I kept doing it over and over and got it where I start in FF, go nearly straight up (just a little bit of angle so that the tail is pointed towards the center of the funnel) then give it left or right cyclic to start the funnel and then adjust using forward/back cyclic to keep the funnel from dropping too fast or from leveling out.
Really so easy with the tail down funnel entry? It looks simple then. I am going to try it tonight with the sim.

So, if I do a backward flight instead, then it will become the normal nose down funnel?
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09-22-2009 04:33 AM  11 years ago
Spitfire1

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Perth Australia

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beeflyer2

I have pheonix 2.5, I just dont understand how so many people on this forum can say that tic tocs are realistic?

Myself and basicly anyone else I fly with can punch out perfect tic tocs 2 ft of the deck as if we were Alan Zabo, in real life the heli bogs gets all out of shape and if you continue it flutters downward into the ground, sometimes I find I can fluke 4 or 5 nice ones, but thats luck nothing else.
Another thing, on the sim I can hold right stick and by useing good collective management flip the heli sideways allmost on the spot until I get bored of doing it, I would say after about 5 stationary flips in a row with my real heli it is so badly bogged down its about to fall out of the sky, and anyway by about the 4th one its corcscrewing so much it may as well be a piroflip.

Any manouver that uses hard collective the sim is basicly a complete waste of time, Imo its made that way so people will have fun with it, if they made the sim completely realistic like a real heli everyone would say its a POS and not buy it.
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09-22-2009 05:27 AM  11 years ago
fla heli boy

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cape coral, florida

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I wish I would've never wasted my money or time on my sim. I have alot of experience from years ago, just bought the sim to brush up and I just can't seem to get the hang of it. Basic groundwork, nose-in, thats fine, but all of the new maneuvers, I just can't seem to get the depth perception right or something. I should probably sell the G4 so I can get my TX and get my beam going.
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09-22-2009 09:04 AM  11 years ago
JetFire

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The Golden STATE

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Just for the sake of clarification: I believe a funnel is when the heli's tail is pointed up or down, and a hurricane is when the tail is following or leading the direction of the heli in a circle.
+1.

In addition,
It’s a combination of things and very difficult to explain but if you want a basic breakdown its allot like an continuos bankturn. In a nutshell, you’re basically applying collective and continuously adjusting aileron to some degree so you can maintain altitude and a means to control the size of the pattern while utilizing mainly the cyclics to do all the turning. Keep in mind, that once in a jacknife position your pulling back on the cyclics to turn. Having said that.. the harder you pull back, the tighter the circle. Once you entered the pattern, you're barely moving the rudder. Thats about as simple as I can put it.

Hope that helped

Trex700N Pro
DX8-2.4
Spartan/BL9088

-The ONLY way you fail is when you quit.-
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09-23-2009 06:32 AM  11 years ago
Spitfire1

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Perth Australia

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Dont get me wrong, for some things for example backward flying, funnels and hurricanes, theres no way I could learn those type of things without the sim.

I just believe theyve got it so wrong when it comes to basic tail down or sideways tic tocs, I just find its not even remotely close.

I would say anyone whos flown an rc heli at any level could do nearly perfect tic tocs as good as the ones we see in the vids of sponsored pilots with a few hours practice on Phoenix, now obviously this is not realistic.

Ive been seriously useing all my skill and concentration for 3 months now trying to nail clean low to the ground tic tocs, I think I may just be starting to get it.

To put it into some perspective, in the time ive been unsuccessfuly trying to learn to do basic tic tocs, Ive learned to fly inverted backwards and just starting with these hurricane/funnel style things.

The sims good, but theyve got it completely wrong with tic tocs.
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09-25-2009 12:38 AM  11 years ago
LONEWOLF2440

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MYRTLE BEACH S.C

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i found if ya start to learn a funnel and get that down packed hurricanes are alot easier to learnMIKADO LOGO 600 TREX 550
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09-26-2009 04:46 AM  11 years ago
spiccolli99

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phila,pa-usa

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how can you say that sims arent real.
everyting i learned i learned on the sim!!
i practice for hours and hours a night for 3 months strait!
learned everything i know from flying on a sim..even tic tocs.
i dunno..personal preference again..
which way is it going dude!!!!!!?? am i inverted??
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09-26-2009 06:53 AM  11 years ago
Spitfire1

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Perth Australia

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Edit
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09-28-2009 04:57 AM  11 years ago
Spitfire1

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Perth Australia

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Phoenix sim is very realistic for everything, just not tic tocs or any transition that uses that same kind of sudden blade stop, and the only other thing that is not realistic is that on phoenix you can flip continuously sideways, backward or forward for ever without any unwanted interaction, with no bog. I think with my 500e after aprox 6 continuous flips it starts to become too bogged down to keep going much further.

I think Hurricanes and funnels on the sim are identical to doing them on my real heli, exactly the same in every way.
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09-28-2009 09:42 PM  11 years ago
hanzuki

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London, Ontario-canada

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To get into a hurricane, I find backwards easiest. Just get yourself going and bank into a turn. The heli will go where the tail is pointing, IE: tail points up slightly it will climb, tail points down slightly, it will descend. Anyhow, once you are going you simply use the elevator to contorl the circle width along with aileron to maintain your bank angle. Adding collective will increase your speed but you have to make a tighter cirle to keep it going. Very little collective and less bank angle will give you a slow easy circuit. More angle (closer to 90' and more collective will give you very fast, tight hurricanes.
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10-07-2009 12:24 AM  11 years ago
Rob P77

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Middletown, DE USA

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Hurricane
As a 3 month heli flyer / newbie I feel that hurricanes are the easiest maneuver to do. In my opinion, if you can fly forward flight then you can do a hurricane. Its nothing more than flying forward but in a circle. Doesnt not matter if your inverted or upright, forwards or backwards if your flying in a circle with the tail either behind or leading then its a hurricane. I started doing them after I learned forward flight. I can now do upright forward, upright backwards, and inverted forward, but have not mastered inverted backwards on the sim yet so I will wait to try it with my 600. As for funnels, I think most refer to them as tail down disc in, taildown disc out, or nose down disc in, and nose down disc out. I like to start the upright taildown from a hover or from backwards flight and its basically a smooth simultaneous movement of backwards to get the nose up, left or right to start the sideways motion and at exactly the same time you have to start holding some rudder to keep the tail perfectly down or to the inside of the funnel. I find when doing them this way that you have to be ready to push forward elevator to stop it from sliding down and loosing altitude because when your first learning them its hard to keep the tail where it needs to be and for me I kept letting the tail fall behind and it would start falling. After bit you get a feel for it and can do them down on the deck without a problem. My problem now is trying to do them in the wind without getting blown away. I find that in the wind they are " egg shaped " because it wants to drift with the wind and slow down going into the wind. Seems like you have to adjust your pitch and tilt the disc some to keep it nice and round. IMO
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