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Home✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterGasser Model RC HelicoptersOther › It was bound to happen sooner or later, THUD!
09-20-2009 11:08 PM  11 years ago
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gramey

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United Kingdom

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It was bound to happen sooner or later, THUD!
I finally managed to get all my electrics working as they should and I was just trying to sort my throttle curves out when the tail push rod decided to pop off. As the heli started spin round it decided to come back towards me so with a choice of my head or the heli, the heli lost and I hit throttle hold and watched it stack into the ground.
Quite sickening to be honest, and also I fear quite expensive, main & tail blades, main & possibly feathering shaft, flybar, paddles, skids, boom & torque tube, tail drive gear and hopefully finally the horizontal tail fin. The only good thing was I didn't have my canopy on at the time.
I'd even bought myself a tach so that I could set my throttle curve better and it's probably just as well I did. This could explain why my engine got hot last time out and why it's so thirsty for a gasser, first measurement 1930 rpm, ouch! I had the governor off in normal mode and set for 1560 & 1670 in 1 & 2. I went back and rest the governor to give 1550 in normal, then 1650 & 1750. I didn't use 1 & 2 but then set about adjusting my throttle curve to try and match this by flicking the governor on & off.
I thought I was starting to make progress when the tail let go and down it came. Can anyone give me some ball park figures for a 7 point throttle curve?
Dumb thumb specialist
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09-20-2009 11:24 PM  11 years ago
smallplanes

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That sounds like my kinda luck but aleast you lived,you can always rebuild a heli but a head or face not so well. I'm very sorry to hear that.
Spectra G 26cc
Jewel
Bat 27cc
Trex 700<br
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09-21-2009 12:07 AM  11 years ago
AceBird

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Utica, NY USA

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Can anyone give me some ball park figures for a 7 point throttle curve?
The first one is 0 and the last one is 100

All kidding aside this question is asked all too often and the answer is "it depends".

Have you decided on a headspeed? Did you find out what the hover point is for this headspeed before it went down?
Ace
What could be more fun?
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09-21-2009 12:17 AM  11 years ago
pgkevet

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Wales

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..been there (often enough).. a lot of energy in these when they go down. Check your grip arms.. they make them out of butter on the tempest head.. Consider a trex 700 flybar and if the boom supports have gone then just buy some carbon tube and make up your own. It saves some pennies.
Also a close look around the radio bay .. another weak point..and I usually crack the dubro tank too

You can soften epoxy with heat to disassemble bonded parts and often re-use some of it..like the boom support ends
pgk
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09-21-2009 01:19 AM  11 years ago
Malc1

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EVESHAM,UK

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Sorry to hear it Graham

It does sound a bit expensive - hope M & R have got some stock for you else its to the US for bits.

We are just not having any luck with these gassers are we

My Normal mode curve for the moment while breaking in is 15.5, 22, 24, 25.5, 27, 100%

This could still be tweaked a bit though.
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09-21-2009 05:11 AM  11 years ago
Excalibur

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Destination: Earth

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Sorry Gramey, just got mine back together after a horrendous crack-up earlier this year. Think I had about $450 in parts by the time it was all said and done. Damn carbon fiber blades are a huge chunk of that cost.

As PGK said, check your main rotor blade grips - I can just about guarantee one or both are bent. Even if they're slightly bent, change them. Check your A-arms as well, they can get bent fairly easily.

The other thing to check is the main bearing block at the top of the frames. This block takes the brunt of the crash forces and can split:

I was totally shocked to see this block cracked after my last crash, but it makes sense, because the metal along the sides is so thin and it's only made of aluminum. Heads up!

Xcal
Camper Fuel: It's Not Just for Breakfast Anymore
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09-21-2009 07:50 AM  11 years ago
Trevor G

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Brisbane, Australia

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Sorry to hear about the prang Gramey,
The same thing happened to me because the tail servo output shaft snapped off. About 45 feet up, I killed the engine and managed to level the rotor disk each 360 it did then almost stop the blades at the bottom of the attempted auto. I bent the usual, and broke the landing gear cross member, but the SAB 710`s survived!
I think the list was,
Boom
main shaft
feathering shaft
tail output shaft
both pitch arms on the grips
Landing gear set.

The bearings all checked out OK.

I`m starting to think these gassers are a bit dodgy until someone completely isolates that thumping zenoah from the rest of the frame.
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09-21-2009 07:58 PM  11 years ago
carpman

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Spain

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Ouch sorry to hear another Spectra has bitten the dirt, seems to be happening quite a bit lately to experienced and novice pilots. Just about got mine dialled back in after my episode, but its not right, only tuning issues I think!

Thanks to PGKevet (Peter) I found the main blade pitch arms were bent before I placed my parts order, they look OK at first glance but as they are made of plasticine, beware...

Is this the one you are selling..?
KEVIN
Trex 500ESP | Trex 600NSP | Trex 700 Gasser | MA Spectra G
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10-09-2009 10:39 PM  11 years ago
gramey

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United Kingdom

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Well having got the parts sometime ago I finally gathered sufficient enthusiasm to rebuild my Spectra. I'm hoping the weather will be o.k on Sunday for me to be able to run it up and test it. While I had it in pieces I took the opportunity to peg the tail boom as several people have suggested that this is a good idea. My main concern is that the main/tail drive crown gear still doesn't sound as sweet as I would like it to. I checked all the bearings and they seemed o.k, I had replacements if needed, so I'm just wondering if it's the one way.
I've also set my tail rotor pitch to zero to see if this makes any difference to the tail drifting. Has anyone else set their tail pitch to zero or is it a strict no, no? I thought I'd give it a try and see if it made any difference.
Anyway here's hoping the weather is good and there are some signs of progress with getting this heli flying properly.
Dumb thumb specialist
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10-09-2009 10:50 PM  11 years ago
smallplanes

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Thats the samething that just happened to me my tail rod poped of,but i got a fix for that now i ordered the balls with the holes all the way thru so i can put a washer on the outside to keep it from coming of again. I would tell you to order some but i bought all they had at Ron's. I like to buy extra when i buy.
Spectra G 26cc
Jewel
Bat 27cc
Trex 700<br
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10-09-2009 11:07 PM  11 years ago
smallplanes

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And just think some guys says they never heard of a such of thing,i'm not glad you crashed but i am glad people know that these rods can come off while in flight. Sorry that happened to you i hope things get better for you. I sent my motor off today to Al and i hope he can get it right for me. If he does not i'm going to couse everyone that told me to send it to him,if it works i'm going to thank everyone that told me to send it to him. Like i said before these gassers can be a SOB. I will get it even if i have to send it to Raja. with my 12FG not my 12ZH i can't send that baby any where. I get a hard on just looking at it. Best TX ever made.

Thanks
Ivan

Spectra G 26cc
Jewel
Bat 27cc
Trex 700<br
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10-10-2009 03:22 AM  11 years ago
turboomni

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East of the Equator

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What is the problem with the links poping off?? I have a 1005 gasser and never had that problem but I'm building a Spectra now and do not want that to happen. Can anyone post a pic of their solution and the parts needed to do this?? Also how many links need to be done??Setup is everything, All my heli's can fly far better than I can pilot them
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10-10-2009 07:27 AM  11 years ago
Excalibur

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I've also set my tail rotor pitch to zero to see if this makes any difference to the tail drifting. Has anyone else set their tail pitch to zero or is it a strict no, no? I thought I'd give it a try and see if it made any difference.
Actually, you don't want it set to ZERO, you want it set to about 4 or 5 degrees to counter the torque from the engine during hovering and flight. It probably won't matter anyway, because the gyro will command the correct amount of offset to counter torque, but you will have an offset in your system.

If you switch out of heading hold and into rate mode on the gyro under these circumstances, your tail boom will probably start spinning fairly aggressively. The best recommendation is to set the tail rotor linkage length to hold the tail steady in rate mode. You will find most manufacturers and experienced fliers recommend this setup. Once that is done, your gyro/servo have the best chance of performing well in heading hold. Just something to consider. . .

Xcal
Camper Fuel: It's Not Just for Breakfast Anymore
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10-10-2009 08:19 AM  11 years ago
Trevor G

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Brisbane, Australia

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The balls required to do the captive ball link mod are MA 0555-1.
Just get some miniature penny washers to put either side of them and some screws to suit each location on the heli. I have done every link on my heli below the swashplate. The pitch lever one on the Spectra requires a longer bolt with a spacer as well to get the ball out and clear of the side frame.
If you do this mod then the balls can`t come off and cause a crash, so true to Murphy`s Law, the pitch horns or servo output shafts will snap off instead! Get some Quick UK CNC servo horns to head this off before it happens, and in my case I had one servo that has carbonite shaft so I back drilled that and put a screw through from inside the servo with a nut on the outside holding the horn on.
Even though it`s a Hanson 26 and runout and balance has been done on everything, I`ve had 2 snapped throttle servo horns, and 2 snapped tail servo output shafts bring my speccy down. Saved it 3 times and copped minor damage on the fourth.
Funny though that the only crashes I have ever had were 1 glow clunk line tearing on a sceadu and it survived OK, and four vibration induced failures on my gasser. I find the gasser not confidence inspiring at all and every time it goes up I`m just waiting for something to let go.
Nice heli but no fun at all really until I get it sorted right out.
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10-10-2009 08:19 AM  11 years ago
carpman

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Spain

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Hi Graham

I set mine at zero (centred on slider) and it works fine, always has. If I switch into rate mode there is no violent or fast piro, just a slow rotation, heli turns left, but I never fly in rate mode.

Having said that I understand that this method is effectively overworking the servo/gyro so I am going to set it up as per the instruction to be steady in rate mode and then see what happens. Once again its down to personal choice and I will pick which set up I prefer when I am done...

Hey smallplanes your going to curse us all if the motor isn't good for you, that's not nice! The motor will work well for you but its still got to be set up and run in correctly that's down to you not us! I guess you were just joking again...?
KEVIN
Trex 500ESP | Trex 600NSP | Trex 700 Gasser | MA Spectra G
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10-10-2009 08:35 AM  11 years ago
carpman

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Spain

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I think CNCJunkie has the MA parts list of what is needed to do the captive ball links.

I have done the mod but can't locate my details anywhere...
KEVIN
Trex 500ESP | Trex 600NSP | Trex 700 Gasser | MA Spectra G
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10-10-2009 10:21 AM  11 years ago
CNCjunkie

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Kauai (The Garden Isle), Hawaii - USA

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Here is the list of everything you need to capture the links from the swashplate down..

Just another crappy day in Paradise....Aloha!
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10-10-2009 03:11 PM  11 years ago
turboomni

rrProfessor

East of the Equator

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Do you think this mod of capturing the links is manditory on any Spectra? Why is this happening and why doesn't it happen to other x-Cell heli's? WEhy wouldnt they have these parts in the kit to begin with??Setup is everything, All my heli's can fly far better than I can pilot them
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10-10-2009 03:58 PM  11 years ago
smallplanes

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Yes carpman i'm just kidding i know it's still up to me to get it flying
right. I'm just doing what you all say to do but let me tell you get the balls with the holes in them and put washers on it. I went to put mine on and my dang bolts are about 5/16 to short. I'm going to town in a little while to see if i can find some longer bolts,i live in a small town and it maybe i can find them maybe not,if i had know that i would have bought longer bolts when i bought the balls and spacers.

If you want the simple pn# go to Ron's and look up MA 0361(m2 control ball pack of 5) and FMP 3/16 ultra ball standoff,use with 2mm screw or bolt pack of 10 PN#FMP1042 thats all you need othe than small washers and a m2lock nut and a few bolts M2 around 20mm long. I'm going to lowes and Ace hardware thats the only place to go around here. So if i where you i would get the long bolts while placing the order. If you do this it does not matter how much vibs you get the arm can't pop off.

Hope this help,i will try to post you a link at Ron's.

Thanks

Spectra G 26cc
Jewel
Bat 27cc
Trex 700<br
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10-10-2009 04:02 PM  11 years ago
smallplanes

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http://www.ronlund.com/Merchant2/me...uct_Code=MA0361

Try this link this is what Ron sent me and this is where i ordered my parts from. Hope this help,but take my word for it DON'T fly with out them instailled.

Thanks

Spectra G 26cc
Jewel
Bat 27cc
Trex 700<br
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Home✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterGasser Model RC HelicoptersOther › It was bound to happen sooner or later, THUD!
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