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09-16-2009 03:20 AM  11 years ago
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howlingriffon

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Navarre Fl and Eagan MN

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Average crash cost?
What 's the average cost to repair one of these after a crash? Going to discuss getting one again with She Who Controls the Checkbook and need as much ammo in my corner as possible. Why is it that wives always seem to think food and shelter are more important than new hobby stuff? Thanks again for all of your input and patience with the newbie.
Not so good at flying but getting really good at rebuilding
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09-16-2009 03:30 AM  11 years ago
billm

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Liberty Lake, WA

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This is a tough question.
It all depends on how hard the crash is.
Lets take the really hard crash. The ship is a total mess. That would be hard to take and the price would be a new ship. $199 bucks to get a new ship from JB. This would not include the damage to electronics and all the other stuff your ship needs to fly. If you get any ship the electronics and stuff would be the same cost to fix regardles of what you fly. So...Tell the check book that the Pantera is a good ship and replacement is just a few dinners at home to replace. Learn to cook and your golden.
My name is Billm. Cough, and I'm a Heli Holic
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09-16-2009 03:42 AM  11 years ago
nfdheli

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Kendallville, IN

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Last week my Pantera went in due to going inverted and forgot Idle Up!

Frames, tail boom, mainshaft, blade grip, blades, tail rotor shaft, fuel tank, 2 links, both fins, misc.

I was flying next day after a trip to Spratts Hobby for $176.00 and they had all parts in stock!!

Richard
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09-16-2009 04:10 AM  11 years ago
gondwnhard

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redwood city ca.

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FOR THESE PRICES ASSUME 1ST CRASH NO PARTS ON HAND

PART SET 1

------------------Raptor---Vibe------T-Rex------Pantera--TZ V2

Main Shaft----8.75-------11.39----11.49-------11.99-----4.99
Spindle -------6.39--------6.49-----7.99---------8.99------2.99
Boom Brace-12.99 -----14.72---11.99-------16.99-------7.99
Boom----------11.75----- 12.34---10.00-------9.99--------4.99
TT---------------xxxx-------9.99----15.99-------xxxx------xxxx
Tail Rotor----- 5.79------14.44----6.99--------9.99-------5.99
Tail Shaft------7.09------ 9.99---- 13.99------6.99-------4.99
Counter Gear-xxxxx-----13.99----13.99-----26.99------5.99
Fly Bar --------6.39-------6.99------4.99-----8.99--------3.99
Mixing Arm---- 8.75------2.99-----xxxxx------6.29------4.69

Sub Total 1---- 67.90---- 103.33----97.42-----107.21----46.61

PART SET 2
Washout Arm 10.29 4.99 8.99 6.99 6.99
Frame 24.49 56.99 120.00 29.99 52.99
Main Gear 11.25 18.99 13.49 22.99 6.99
Tail Drive Gear xxxxx 18.04 11.99 17.99 5.99
Tail Slider 11.25 18.44 9.99 26.66 8.99
Tail Grips 7.49 5.99 15.99 12.99 7.99
Blade Grips 9.49 9.99 51.99 14.99 39.99

------------------Raptor---Vibe------T-Rex------Pantera--TZ V2

Sub Total 2-------142.16---236.76----320.87-----241.81---129.93

PART SET 3
Tail Drive Gear 6.59 xxxxx xxxx xxxxx xxxxx
Canopy 22.49 47.49 82.99 38.99 29.99
Mixing Arm xxxx xxxxx 19.99 xxxxx xxxxx
Washout Arm xxxxx xxxxx 20.99 xxxx xxxxx
Belt 26.99 xxxxx xxxx 24.49 14.99
Clutch Bell 16.49 18.99 15.99 14.99 11.99
Pinion 5.99 11.39 4.99 5.99 7.99
Fuel Tank 8.99 12.34 10.99 13.99 8.99
Swash 27.99/52.99 49.87 37.99 29.99 18.99
Tail Rotor Hub 5.89 40.37 33.99 23.00 5.99

------------------Raptor---Vibe------T-Rex------Pantera--TZ V2

Total ------------235.59---417.21----548.79-----393.25---98.93

[B]i took these numbers from a post in main discussion that got deleted a few days ago dont know who did it originally but thanks just added TZ frenzy to it

1.Frenzy 275.47
2.Raptor 445.65
3.Pantera 742.27
4.Vibe 757.3
5.Trex 967.08 (multiple in pack/sport is cheaper)
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09-16-2009 06:35 AM  11 years ago
pita

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MO US

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It is hard to understand why a $200 heli would cost more to repair than a $600 heli. Can someone explain this?
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09-16-2009 11:12 AM  11 years ago
kazager

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Waldorf, MD - USA

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Cost
for $300 you can have 2 complete kits, you do the math.
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09-16-2009 01:16 PM  11 years ago
ProModeler

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Sanford, FL (Orlando area)

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I have a database, which shows orders accumulated since we've been in the heli business. For the last few years, average crash costs for a Pantera have run about $38. For example, a typical order will be for a tail boom, main shaft, tail output shaft, and landing gear legs. Or spindle shaft, fin set, tail boom. Or fin set, spindle shaft and main shaft. These are orders typically exclude the blades, which I theorize is due to folks buying blades elsewhere.

Moreover, some things seemingly never, or hardly ever break. For example, we quite rarely sell main frames, washout arms, fuel tanks, tail rotor grips, or seesaw arms. Not to say it doesn't happen because it does, but these are the exception rather than the rule. By the way, we used to sell quite a few seesaw arms but we beefed them up and now rarely sell them any longer. Ditto for main gear 1 and main gear 2, or tail drive gear, tail belts, or tail pulleys. We just don't sell them very often. In fact, it doesn't make much sense to include most of these parts (unless you have an agenda) if they rarely break because they're simply not representativce of a typical crash.

In fact, we have a group of parts, which we call the usual suspects and if you stock them on your parts wall, about 75% of the time you can fix your model using spares from this pool of parts. Not that you'll use them all in a crash - understand the difference? The usual suspects are:
Tail boom, main shaft, tail output shaft, spindle shaft, flybar, plus landing gear legs, radio platforms, fin sets, and blades.

However, when you do break a big ticket item, like a set of main frames, you're going to spend a mere $30 for those of a Pantera versus quite a bit more for other helis. Moreover, unlike other polymer frame designs, like Thunder Tiger Raptor and Hirobo SDX, our frames secure the servos and protect them while theirs have a separate servo carrier, which snaps off to protect the servos, but is quite time consuming to replace. Pantera servos mount directly within the protected side frames.

Further to this, carbon fiber or G10 side frame helicopters are quite time consuming to work on. Worse, in a crash they crack like an egg because they are also fragile. Why? Because it's so rigid it cracks instead of flexing. Furthermore, the material may delaminate with stress leading to hidden weaknesses, and in a crash the failed edges create sharp edges, which leads to an increase in damaged radio components (e.g. slicing through servo wires). Ultimately, for nearly everybody, a polymer frame, which dampens vibrations instead of transmiting vibrations is better for our models, which feature engines pounding away at 17k RPM, understand?

There are other issues to consider beyond mere replacement parts prices. Note the rather high expense of main rotor blade grips for some of the machines in the list provided by the fellow above. Simply put, they're expensive because they're aluminum. Here's the rest of the story . . . unlike polymer blade grips, which flex in a crash and spring back ready for more, aluminum grips may bend. As a consequence, in a crash, which breaks the blades, there's a distinct possibility of the main rotor blade grips being tweaked as well. Suddenly, if you're flying a machine like a TZ Frenzy, add in frame and grips and your crash cost just shot through the roof. This may make sense to some folks, but it sure doesn't make sense to our customers!

But there's more because not only are aluminum main rotor blade grips quite pricey to replace, but the really bad thing about an aluminum main rotor blade grip is this. Short of owning a special jig into which you can insert them follwoing a crash (to see if they're OK to re-use), it may be quite difficult to ascertain if they are ever so slightly bent. Who cares? You should because this may result in wasted time and money trying to track down vibrations (to which the flat plate and block helicopters are already prone to) resulting in your screwing around with these kinds of problems at the field when you're supposed to be out having fun! Sadly, rookies and folks easily influenced by others automatically assume an aluminum main rotor blade grip is superior when nothing could be further from the truth! But that's what you get when 2-gallon experts are busy shooting off their keyboards on the Internet instead of buring fuel.

Ask this question of the group . . . which of the helis listed fly the smoothest, hover better, and perform precise maneuvers (like those typified of F3C) better? The fact is the Pantera is universally praised for it's smooth and precise flight characteristics. So don't be too quick to assume pricey aluminum blade grips are better at anything except opening your wallet for money, so take this into account when calculating expenses! And this goes for aluminum tail rotor grips as well. And by the way, while you're at it, inquire which of the machines in the list have triple bearing one-piece tail rotor grips. The Pantera has a pair of ball bearings and a set of thrust bearings, and uses strong one-piece tail rotor grips. If you take time to learn a bit about model helis you'll soon discover parts prices don't really explain much of anything!

Meanwhile, some have derided a Pantera as a wash-and-wear helicopter because of the polymer materials. The fact is, I accept these derisive comments with pride precisely because the model is so tough, it flexes before breaking. Moreover, the sophisticated fiber reinforced polymer material is so forgiving it actually damps vibrations instead of amplifying them, and as a consequence, the model is smoother and easier to set up.

There's more however. Execpting the Vibe, the clutch of the other two machines mentioned are derived from 30-class models and are thus, quite tiny. They simply cannot harness the horsepower of larger engines without giving trouble. Why do I mention this? Because the Pantera is the only 50-class model expressly designed for customers to upgrade to a larger engine. What this means is when a few guys are foolish enough to fork over 300 bucks for a new OS55 (because it make a few tenths of a horsepower more than the Hyper), savvy Pantera owners can shoehorn a 70, 80, or even 91-class engine into their Pantera instead and, quite simply, blow them away!

Another thing not mentioned in the rather superficial comparison by the fellow who listed parts prices. I speak of the relative size of bearings in the machines mentioned. Again excepting the Vibe, those machines use bearings, which are 40% smaller than the bearings used in the main shaft of the Pantera. Yet the bearings are the very foundation of the helicopter precisely because it carries all the loads! After all, you do know what happens when you start off with a weak foundation don't you? Here's an interesting idea; visit the forums of these other machines, especially in the case of the cheap Chinese plate and block design (even including not so cheap CHinese models from Align, like their 600N). Why interesting? Because you'll learn customers are complaining about the bearings not lasting, or being too small - and for good reason!

Ultimately, part prices don't even begin to tell the whole story. So when you see superficial comparisons, which list parts prices, remember the old saw, The figures don't lie but the liars figure.

John Beech
AMA # 47381
IRCHA #745
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09-16-2009 02:58 PM  11 years ago
kazager

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Waldorf, MD - USA

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Different Strokes
1st, John, that was very insightful. Have you considered selling a few different "crash kits" based on your data, even if there was overlap, who wouldn't get an extra main shaft or whatever, I think you see what I mean?
2nd, different strokes for different folks, and different heli's for different purposes. I think the Pantera is built tough, and the thing I really appreciate is knowing if I bury it nose first to the tail rotor it's only going to cost me $150 (& I can do it twice). Of course I consider the component costs, but they will be the same regardless of what heli you buy if they are damaged. Knowing that let's me try things that I wouldn't try with the Carbon Fiber counterpart, that costs $550. So for me, the Pantera gives me a mental edge, because like you, cost is a factor, a BIG factor.
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09-16-2009 06:14 PM  11 years ago
ProModeler

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Sanford, FL (Orlando area)

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More than once I've tried to come up with a crash kit. The trouble for me is coming up with one that makes good economic sense for just the reasons you've alreay noted, e.g. how to keep from having folks end up with duplicates? The reason is you won't wipe out a spindle in every crash, or even a tail boom each time. So instead I have identified the common parts worthwhile to keep in stock, so to speak, and then I tell folks about them. These are the parts I call the usual suspects.
John Beech
AMA # 47381
IRCHA #745
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09-16-2009 07:36 PM  11 years ago
MartyH

rrProfessor

USA

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There's no sense in creating a crash kit. It's just another SKU that wont satisfy the need. You never need all the parts included in such a kit and always need stuff not in the kit. We'll just order what we need individually.
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09-17-2009 12:37 AM  11 years ago
wthford

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Monticello, Illinois

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I agree. It's pointless. You never damage all the same parts in 2 different crashes. You might consider a percentage off on crash orders JB.... You know... an "I feel for ya" kind of gift...

You are pretty generous as a whole though. And, I have appreciated it when you were. You can't beat the service and quick shipping you'll be from JB. A pleasure to do business with. And, if you have time, you can give him a call sometime and just "shoot the bull" with him. As you can tell, he does like to chat.
How can I soar with the Eagles when I work with turkeys??
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09-17-2009 03:20 AM  11 years ago
billm

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Liberty Lake, WA

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My last crash was $89.00. Then again I orderd two of several parts so I would have "parts on the wall".
The laundry list that whats his butt from dead wood city is flawed.
My name is Billm. Cough, and I'm a Heli Holic
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01-23-2010 11:39 PM  11 years ago
Timp.dk

rrApprentice

Denmark

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We are trying to work on a crash price list here http://rcheli.dk/crash-prices-spare-parts-prices/http://rcheli.dk
http://birdeye.dk
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01-28-2010 01:36 AM  11 years ago
brown1957

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Newton,ks

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Thx nfdheli for the Spratts Hobby. Trying for cheaper shipping.
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01-28-2010 05:59 AM  11 years ago
pertti

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deltona,FL

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Seen this comparison before. The problem is obvious when Pantera crash cost number is $241 or $393 and birds are ranked based on these numbers. Parts can not cost more than new Panteras! I bet people mean good when they do these comparisons but this heli is low cost to replace when crash is "complete". Plus it is really only the second crash that costs any meaningful money as you can buy two Panteras and get good deal on the second one! Now, will the effective crash price be different if you crash the second cheaper Pantera before the first slightly more expensive Pantera? Just kidding...got the idea?
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01-29-2010 12:40 AM  11 years ago
JuanRodriguez

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The Villages, Florida

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💎Sustaining Member
I have always felt that the best "crash kit" is to have a second WHOLE kit at your disposal.... When you crash, you pick out the part(s) you need and then place an order to replace those parts taken out of the second kit.....

Best of both worlds........ you will have the parts necessary for your repair and in the end, you wil have a complete kit to sell in the event you decide to move on to another brand.....

Many years ago when the Raptors first came out, that is exactly what I did. So, I "practice what I preach"..... when I decided to sell the "2nd kit", I didn't loose a dime !

With JB's present pricing structure, it's a no brainer... You'll wind up saving a LOT of $$ in the long run....
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