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Home✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › flybarless is a future for heli or not
09-15-2009 04:26 AM  11 years ago
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NHATRANGNHOMAI

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usa

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flybarless is a future for heli or not
Hi guys.
please give me some idea.
should I buy flybarless for my T-rex 700 or not?
at my local hobby . There are three guys have flybarless , Maybe for a week or two. then they took it off . Put flybar back on.( they do not like it some how )
at first They like it alot some way. ( flip fast , not heavy,fast reponse . but not auto )I think it better some way,
Now they say it feel weird. Can you guys give some input about it please.
thank.
goitoibayvoi*****English isn't my first language and I try to write as well as possible but mis
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09-15-2009 04:31 AM  11 years ago
Jerry K

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Houston Area

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Sounds like you have 3 places to pick up a *{VBar} at a good price

Go for it, from somebody that has 4 and wouldn't trade them

Jerry

PS * They may have had the wrong system, you did not mention a brand
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09-15-2009 12:50 PM  11 years ago
Furyous

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Detroit, Michigan

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Do they wanna sell them?
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09-15-2009 01:00 PM  11 years ago
esmoglo

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Florida USA

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You know its a mixed bag with the FBL systems. I see guys at the field the keep tuning and tuning until the are blue in the face! The rest of us are just enjoying our birds flying our hearts out. Not sure but I think they are still improving the systems so they are simpler to use but I think one day it will be main stream product. If Align runs with a good system in the near future (that's easy to set up) it will take off. But as of now no.Ugly can be fixed stupid is forever!
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09-15-2009 01:13 PM  11 years ago
Blade_Master1

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Canada

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ON the fence
I am only able to do sport flying; Is it worth it ?

It still seems odd to me to take off a perfectly good flybar this is simple to set-up ,comes free with the heli.

For something that can be a failure point or could be difficult to set-up and is expensive.

I"llwait a few more years

I believe all in one units are coming soon
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09-15-2009 01:24 PM  11 years ago
Furyous

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Detroit, Michigan

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Flybarless is actually a lot easier to setup and maintain the setup. Like anything new, there is a learning curve. I remember last year, when I got my first FBL setup, it flew like arse. Now, I can set one up in 10 minutes and it is golden.

In a couple of years flybars won't exist. Like rate gyros.
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09-15-2009 01:25 PM  11 years ago
J2M

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UK

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at first They like it alot some way. ( flip fast , not heavy,fast reponse . but not auto )I think it better some way,
Now they say it feel weird.
I suspect this sort of experience may be more common than you might think from the flybarless forums.

There's a lot of hype and cheerleading going on for flybarless but we don't seem to hear much from the people who tried it and, on balance, decided to keep their flybars. The cheerleaders will say that's because everyone likes it who tries it but I'm not so sure. Different doesn't necessarily equal better although you just can't argue with some of the benefits of flybarless like increased efficiency/power and ease of crash repair which some will feel justify on their own the cost of going flybarless.

Personally, I'm still exploring setup options on my L500 VBar 4.0 and haven't made my mind up whether to keep it or not. What I'm trying to get to is a setup that's "like a flybar but better" and I don't want something that flies radically differently and requires me to re-learn how to fly some manoeuvres.

There's no doubt you can get a set-up that has higher maximum cyclic rotation rates at a given head speed than a flybared set-up would offer combined with great disc stability. What I'm finding though is that I can't get the immediacy of response that I'm used to with my flybar models. It feels like there's a tiny delay before the software decides what to do with my control input and it takes a bit longer than I'm used to for the disc to achieve the commanded cyclic rotation rate. Same thing again when I stop a control input sometimes. Increasing the stick response parameter to maximum has helped a lot but I'm still not 100% convinced. I'm going to try to increase cyclic gain next to see if that helps. Btw I'm not talking about a latency issue because I didn't have an issue with this before the VBar conversion and my setup has very low latency according to the JKOS charts.

Just my personal views so cheerleaders please go elsewhere. I would be interested to hear from anyone who has experienced and fixed the "immediacy" point I mention
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09-15-2009 04:02 PM  11 years ago
Jerry K

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Houston Area

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I don't know if I am one of the chearleaders J2m is refering to or not!

Remember there are a lot of flying styles and abilities out there, so there fore what works for one person may not be right for another and vise versa.

Also there are 4-5 FBL brands out and there are more to come I am sure.
The heli is already flybarless but has an SK and I've really been diligent trying to tune this thing to work correctly but it will NOT cooperate with me.
You know its a mixed bag with the FBL systems. I see guys at the field the keep tuning and tuning until the are blue in the face!
I am not knocking SK but be careful lumping all FBL systems together, and also be careful if it is not right for a given person it may be right for your style.

A lot of this could be driven by the person also. I know a pattern flyer that programs something after EVERY flight and a Heli flyer that does the same thing some times in the middle of the flight.

So take it for what it is worth, until you try it for yourself

Jerry
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09-15-2009 04:46 PM  11 years ago
Ronald Thomas

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Gainesville, Fl, USA

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2 axis vs 3 axis and timing
I think the guys who do it right (3 axis or 2 axis with a great gyro and a great head) tend to like them. If you cheap out you won't like it (2 axis and a so so gyro).
Also the timing is a little different for 3d moves. Justin Chi flew a 12s Trex 700 E at IRCHA and he didn't like it because it "felt" different to what he was used to. He still made it look good though!.......Ron
Team MikadoUSA 480XXTreme, 550SX, 600SX, 700XXTreme, 800XXTreme!!
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09-15-2009 04:47 PM  11 years ago
MLINVILLE

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Co

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I wonder if this was the debate when the new heading hold gyro's became available?

I have a friend that I have helped with the setting up of different systems such as V-bar version 4, CSM, SK 360, Rondo. I think that we would try even more systems just to see the differences. I have never had one set up fine tuned. What I can tell you is who you buy it from and what support you can get after the sale will make a difference. RRE Models has spent alot of time helping with the set up and dealing with different systems. I still fly my machine flybared until I finish setting up my fbl..

Mike
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09-15-2009 04:48 PM  11 years ago
Ronald Thomas

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Gainesville, Fl, USA

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You need a VBAR again with 4.0 or a Gyrobot Team MikadoUSA 480XXTreme, 550SX, 600SX, 700XXTreme, 800XXTreme!!
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09-15-2009 04:52 PM  11 years ago
GimbalFan (RIP)

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Big Coppitt Key, FL

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In a couple of years flybars won't exist. - Furyous
100% wrong. Their intended (best) use is for 3D -- and not everyone flies 3D. Sport flyers have little or no use for FBL and they make up the vast majority of RC heli hobbyists. Scale guys will sometimes use 'em for appearances sake.

Flybars are here to stay.
op-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-t
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09-15-2009 05:28 PM  11 years ago
popiterflyer

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Va

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I am no 3D pilot by any means. I just like the new and latest. I have had 2 FBL machines and am building a 3rd. In electrics. I felt a noticable difference in power. Flight times were about 45sec longer and I could fly a 600E on 6s without an issue. THe 600N was crazy! It had all the poer and was unboggable with the right amount of pitch. It handled like a dream and in fast FF and aerobatic stuff(loops rools ect) It was on rails! I am building a 700N FBL now. I used the SK360 and Inertia gyro up until this point waiting on the new axiom.
I love it, but it is a different feel and learning curve
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09-15-2009 05:42 PM  11 years ago
VooDooX

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San Francisco Bay Area CA, US (San Mateo)

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i just got a flybarless ill let you know Velocity 50 "99.9999999999999% of an atom is empty space." also 01001000 01001001
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09-15-2009 05:52 PM  11 years ago
NHATRANGNHOMAI

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usa

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I belive wait for 2 or 3 more years . When Flybarless system become popular .Not so much expensive ,not much monkey around with it.( wonder it is working right or not ) more support form factory.
I am sure FBL will make heli fly better some way ( not heavy ).
goitoibayvoi*****English isn't my first language and I try to write as well as possible but mis
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09-15-2009 06:06 PM  11 years ago
russ

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england

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well ive just brought an n9 and im going to give fbarless a try let you know how it goesruss
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09-15-2009 09:47 PM  11 years ago
Pistol Pete

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Seffner, FL

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flybarless is a future for heli or not?
to me it will come down to a scale project decision.
~~Enjoying the hobby one flight at a time~~
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09-15-2009 09:52 PM  11 years ago
heli-cuzz

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Pittston, Pa. USA

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You need a VBAR again with 4.0 or a Gyrobot
Or just slap a FBL head on and be done with it.
Nothing to set-up besides a pitch curve and normal radio settings.

I think FBL is the future, but paddles will be around forever too.
Fury 55 NIB Furion6 CGY750 fbl helicopter-Frenzy CGY750 fbl nitro-Frenzy fbl NOBAR90
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09-15-2009 10:10 PM  11 years ago
TankDirt

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Illinois

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Flybarless the future?

when it first started here with the V-bar, and a bunch of other systems I thought so. But after them being out awhile and seeing how they perform and what people say about them. I highly doubt they are the future of RC helis.

You cant beat the simplicity and price of a good old fashion flybar, I know the head setup on FBL is much simpler, but what you have to go through to get it to fly the way you want is just too much.

I know there will be some that say it sets up very easy, but from the many FBL systems Ive seen none of them are easy tuning. and so far they all mostly need a computer to program.

I think FBL is something that everybody will try at some point, some will stick with it, but most will sell the systems and go back to the flybar. I think its neat and prabably fun, but to me all it is is just another thing to try.
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09-15-2009 10:41 PM  11 years ago
Reesy

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In the doghouse ... Nottingham UK

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Hmm

Interesting,

I've got
Vbar4 3DMP
Vbar4 logo500
Vbar4 Trex500

And looking at mini vbar'ing a 450 next.

Now I've seen Jeremy (J2M) fly and so have a LOT of respect for his opinions. I'll be interested to see how he gets on with his 500.

FWIW If I was buying/building new and could afford it I'd go FBL (logo for instance make FBL and FB versions of their kits)

If you have a FB already don't bust your nuts to change just because it's flavour of the month.

Don't think I'll ever go back tho'
Paul
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