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09-15-2009 03:29 AM  11 years ago
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CWALDO123

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Pledge of Confusion
I'm sure CRACKPOT Ozark will approve of this!! it's right up his liberal spine...

Now is seems that the ACLU wants to have the Miranda read to kids on whether or not to say the pledge....
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It's a new school year, but an old fight is brewing in American classrooms. Teachers and administrators around the country are scratching their heads once again over the Pledge of Allegiance.

The courts have consistently ruled that students have the right not to recite the pledge in public schools. But now some First Amendment advocates are taking it one step further, arguing that the law compels educators to inform kids at the beginning of school that the decision is entirely up to them.

They're advocating a "Miranda warning" for the Pledge -- an administrative notice to students that they have the right to remain silent.

The Pledge of Allegiance creates a constitutional problem. You have to tell students they can opt out, the Rev. Barry Lynn, executive director of Americans United for Separation of Church and State, told FOX News.
Hirobo Evo 50 ,Jr9303 ((( Are Those Things Hard To Fly ?? Nah !! Snicker )))
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09-16-2009 02:40 AM  11 years ago
Aaron29

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The Pledge of Allegiance creates a constitutional problem.
Yes. It does. Mandating it removes your free speech and is entirely unconstitutional. ...

I love the constitution and would give anything for it. ANYTHING that threatens it, or challenges it, to me, is wrong. You cannot call me part of any political party, because whether something unconstitutional comes from a Republican or a Democrat, I will stand against that party on that issue. I don't pick sides.

Republicans and democrats didn't give me my freedom. The Bill of Rights of the constitution and those who died for it did.

I also love the flag. And the republic. And I do pledge my allegiance to it.

But the pledge is a nationalist ideal. I believe it has it's place for public servitude, military service, government, and for adults to express the adoration of the awesome country we are in.

But schools?

Why does a child need to have nationalist fervor to learn ABC's? It almost seems fascist.

Listen to a class of children recite it. They do it by rote...Not truly knowing what they are saying. Are they pledging anything? Might as well have them sign some legal documents too. They no more understand that then they do pledging allegiance. They have to grow up in America to understand what America is. Only then can they decide if they want to pledge allegiance to it.

The pledge only means something when it is recited from the heart, from someone who knows exactly what the words mean.

I know many disagree with me, as though I'm trying to take away something sacred. What few know is that even our forefathers didn't recite the pledge. It was invented in 1892 and has quite a rocky history.

Frankly I think it should be tossed from schools. Problem solved. Show me one constitutional argument for keeping it there.

The ACLU has annoyed me to no end on occasion, but on this one I think they hit the mark.
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09-16-2009 02:56 AM  11 years ago
FlaG8r

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Florida

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Cwaldo123, do you ever post any heli related things? Looking back through your posts it seems you ONLY post in the off-topic threads.Life is tough, it's tougher if you're stupid
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09-16-2009 06:13 AM  11 years ago
CWALDO123

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Germantown , Tn - Shelby

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Hey FlaG8r Did I get under your skin ?? Do I ask you about what you post?? And 1st of all is it any of your business??Hirobo Evo 50 ,Jr9303 ((( Are Those Things Hard To Fly ?? Nah !! Snicker )))
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09-16-2009 06:20 AM  11 years ago
Dennis (RIP)

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Oregon

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Yes. It does. Mandating it removes your free speech and is entirely unconstitutional. ...
Who ever said anyone was mandating it?
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09-16-2009 11:59 PM  11 years ago
Aaron29

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Who ever said anyone was mandating it?
I grew up in school and said the pledge of allegiance as a 6 year old. I didn't even know what "indivisible" or "allegiance" meant!

All I knew was that the teacher would tell us "we're going to do the pledge of allegiance now." So as a child, in a class full of children doing it, I followed suit.

I never really thought of "opting out." Nor do I really think I would have, since most were doing it anyway. Had I opted out, it would have been constitutionally allowed. But why would I? I was six! It was pledge of allegiance time and then it was time to spell CAT or DOG.

The pledge in a classroom puts a child into an intenable position. He can go with the flow and recite the pledge even though he doesn't know what it is. Or he can opt out to likely ridicule or negative attention.

And if he opts out, he may later regret once he realizes how great America is. He unknowingly is taking a stand against the flag by opting out. When really maybe he just doesn't want to memorize a few long words.

We don't let children vote, or work, or have a say in court because they are "too young to make decisions." How is the pledge any different?

Our world is becoming increasingly global. Consider another country seeing these kids, memorize and say, by rote, in monotone voice, the pledge of allegiance. What would the unamerican see here? Perhaps it looks to them like Hitler's youth being indoctrinated.

Before you laugh at my calling it fascist, back in WWII we had to change our own salute to the flag during the pledge to avoid looking like Hitler's youth. Before that, we gave the Bellamy salute that looks more than a bit Fascist.

Once you are an adult, if you choose to pledge allegiance, you are doing so informed and knowing full well why you are doing it. You are not being indoctrinated. And it cannot appear from the outside that anyone is indoctrinating.

Many ask why get rid of the pledge of allegiance in school?

I ask a different question, why DO we have it there?

What is it's purpose, IN SCHOOL? Please give me that answer. It is meaningless for children to recite it.

Back then I recited it. Today I actually identify with it.
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09-17-2009 12:14 AM  11 years ago
Aaron29

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USA

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Who ever said anyone was mandating it?
In 2006, in the Florida case Frazier v. Alexandre, No. 05-81142 (S.D. Fla. May 31, 2006) "A federal district court in Florida has ruled that a 1942 state law requiring students to stand and recite the Pledge of Allegiance violates the First and Fourteenth Amendments of the U.S. Constitution
OK this was only three years ago.
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