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HomeRC & Power✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterFlybarless Rotor Head SystemsOther › Flybarless....Use V-Bar or New Axiom
09-21-2009 02:48 AM  11 years ago
jbdww

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Round Rock, Texas

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I would like to apologize for spatting out my assumptions on pricing. I should of waited a while before typing. It is not fare for the guys who are working hard to get new products out to us. We all have our likes, and opinions.

Now that is said, I like Chevy.

I know that I love flybarless and I know that I will be trying out some of these new products.
Skids Up
http://www.jbdww.com
http://twitter.com/jbdww/
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09-21-2009 05:15 AM  11 years ago
bstock

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Easton, MD.

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So when, as a software developer, I read about the first version of one outfit's tail gyro being able to load a new firmware file from another company's product - well that's about as likely by chance as a penguin mating with a oak tree.
who's tail gyro is being refered to here?
Inertia's?
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09-22-2009 02:57 AM  11 years ago
MLINVILLE

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Co

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I have a Vbar and I have flown several others csm, rondo, sk360. I can't wait to try the new axiom. I believe that the price point is attractive enough to try. It looks good on video. As long as it is easy to program then it will be worth looking at. I know that the pilot has a lot to do with performance as well that is why if it is easy to set up then I like it.

Mike
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09-22-2009 11:10 AM  11 years ago
Ben-T-Spindle

rrProfessor

Central Illinois

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Is CSM ever going to come out with a flybarless system (all in one 3-axis) that people will actually purchase? That thing that they have now is a joke.

... BTS
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09-22-2009 03:29 PM  11 years ago
GScott

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Lewis Center, OH

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Problem with Axiom is it's a new company with no history. I also question the guy behind it. Mike Fortin has a long history of cheerleading what he is currently using. Mikado and the vbar have been around for a long time and their system has really matured. I also have no doubt that Curtis's new Total G will be awesome with his knowledge and testing behind it.
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09-22-2009 03:36 PM  11 years ago
USNAviationjay

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Houston Tx USA

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I assure you after having seen the new Axiom in person it's a solid performing unit.

and for the record there is nothing odd about cheerleading what you use or believe in.

everyone does it weather on purpose or unconsciously.

Mike is a stand up guy and if he didn't believe highly in this product he wouldn't have started the company.
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09-22-2009 03:48 PM  11 years ago
TonyC.

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CA

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Problem with Axiom is it's a new company with no history. I also question the guy behind it. Mike Fortin has a long history of cheerleading what he is currently using. Mikado and the vbar have been around for a long time and their system has really matured. I also have no doubt that Curtis's new Total G will be awesome with his knowledge and testing behind it.
+1
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09-22-2009 04:06 PM  11 years ago
Jag72

rrProfessor

South of Boston

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Axiom...
Don't forget that the Axiom is actually a rebranded system that is produced by a chinese based company...I remember seeing someone here talking about it...so there may be some history of this unit in flight...just under the OEM's brand...

I think it will be a system worth trying for the money...but the real proof of a flybarless systems performance becomes apparent in smooth and deliberate 3d flight...stick banging is not really a good way to see the TRUE stability of a system...how can you tell if the tail is holding when it's in a constant piro

Just my opinion though...
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09-22-2009 04:22 PM  11 years ago
GScott

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Lewis Center, OH

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and for the record there is nothing odd about cheerleading what you use or believe in.

everyone does it weather on purpose or unconsciously.
I have no problem with someone cheerleading a product. I've been on RR long enough to see some shady things from Mr. Fortin and I'll just leave it at that.
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09-22-2009 05:22 PM  11 years ago
bstock

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Easton, MD.

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but the real proof of a flybarless systems performance becomes apparent in smooth and deliberate 3d flight...stick banging is not really a good way to see the TRUE stability of a system...how can you tell if the tail is holding when it's in a constant piro
Good Point!!
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09-22-2009 06:20 PM  11 years ago
Mike Fortin

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USA

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What many of you need to realize not just about me but others as well is...

I am a pilot first, I fly at events all over the US and compete as well. So, if a product is not up to par then I can't and won't use it and I wouldn't expect anyone else to either.

Is the Axiom an end all to all flybarless systems, no of course not but I do think it's pretty good and on par with any other systems on the market including the V-Bar and most importantly it's less expensive.

We are not looking to take people out of their current systems (unless they want out) but I want to offer a great system at a very enticing price that will get people into flybarless no matter what level of flying they are at.

As for the measure of a "good tail" actually Jag72 is not entirely correct. The tail will work harder in stick banging 3D and will always need to return to center in an instant and then accelerate very quickly a second later.

For larger faster maneuvers it's also nice to do big traveling piro tic-tocs to test the tail to see if there is any whipping or otherwise. The Axiom has excelled in both.

Another thing to consider when listening to people talk about systems on forums is that you have no idea what they are capable of. People will tell you how to do this and that and how stuff may "feel"
BUT....

Have you ever seen them fly in person or a video? I for one at IRCHA was very anxious to see several of the top RR posters fly as well as they speak on here... unfortunately that never happened.
Have Rotors, Will Fly!
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09-22-2009 06:44 PM  11 years ago
Jag72

rrProfessor

South of Boston

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Tail performance
As for the measure of a "good tail" actually Jag72 is not entirely correct. The tail will work harder in stick banging 3D and will always need to return to center in an instant and then accelerate very quickly a second later.
I understand that the tail is working hard under 3d flying to make that instantaneous "STOP" ...but when you are banging the sticks and doing constant direction changes and piro moves...how would you know if it truly stopped accurately?...what I am referring to is the smooth and deliberate 3d flying where you can accurately see the piro consistency and ability to hold the tail straight under fast moves.....like fast backwards hurricanes etc...where you can see if the tail is holding well...

I agree that long piro rainbows and funnels are a good way to demonstrate the piro consistency....I'm not saying the Axiom can't do it ...I'm just saying that the crazy 3d stick banging videos are not really the best proof of performance....While it takes a ton of skill to fly like that I think its hard to tell the true performance unless you are the pilot...

I'll be the first to admit it here...I am no professional 3d pilot...this is a HOBBY for me...not a job or an income...but I know enough about this stuff that I know what to look for....I think this is true for a majority of the people here as well...to discredit people and their input because you have not seen videos of them flying is unfair...some people just aren't into showboating and videos...and just because you're not a master 3d pilot that doesn't mean you don't have valuable input or an ability to tell how something "feels"

BTW...some people on the forums are driven by OTHER motives...like making money and promoting stuff ...so I guess you need to consider that as well when taking peoples "opinions"

I think most people here see the videos and forget that a professional 3d pilot can make ANYTHING look awesome...

Perfect example is Bert Kammerer flying a stock trex 250...
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09-22-2009 07:33 PM  11 years ago
Mike Fortin

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USA

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Flybarless systems aren't measured by how well they hover, hard 3D is a great test to make sure they aren't quirky and always respond the way they are suppossed to.

As the owner of Inertia RC you will not see me telling people how good our products are, that will always be decided by the people that are spending their hard earned money.

We appreciate their support and opinions.
Have Rotors, Will Fly!
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09-22-2009 10:25 PM  11 years ago
MLINVILLE

rrApprentice

Co

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I'll be the first to admit it here...I am no professional 3d pilot...this is a HOBBY for me...not a job or an income...but I know enough about this stuff that I know what to look for....I think this is true for a majority of the people here as well...to discredit people and their input because you have not seen videos of them flying is unfair...some people just aren't into showboating and videos...and just because you're not a master 3d pilot that doesn't mean you don't have valuable input or an ability to tell how something "feels"
Not sure where you are going on this. You don't want to make video's but then complain about the ones that are made.

I don't think that the video represented showboating in any way. I like to see the video's of pro pilots out beating the tar out of the the gear because if they did not wreck then they must have stayed in control of it.

Regardless of the past with Axiom and what the owner has done he feels that he has a product that we need or else he would not be in business. I think that Mike is doing this as a labor of love and no other reason.

While you and I don't make a living at it remember that what you say can impact another's living.
Problem with Axiom is it's a new company with no history.
All company's were new at one time. I choose not to judge to fast or harshly.

Mike
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09-22-2009 10:54 PM  11 years ago
blade3d

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New Jersey USA

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Am between Axiom and V-Bar I might go Axiom tho Blade3d
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09-22-2009 11:15 PM  11 years ago
ExtremeGraphics

rrNovice

Palm Coast Florida

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Axiom is my choice!
After talking to others (that have tested Axiom)and I am impressed!! They come highly recommended by pilots who have flown them!!!!
I am entry level so I know it will out perform me in the years to come.
I will be getting one soon!!
I will reply and comment on setup from a beginners standpoint!

Jack
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09-23-2009 01:17 AM  11 years ago
James Kovach

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canton, oh - US

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I have to agree with Jag72 on this one. Hard 3D IMHO is not the best test of a Flybarless or any Heli for that matter. Smooth and CONSISTENT flights will tell you more about how a flybarless system and/or heli performs. No pitching in forward flight, consistent piro rates and the like are things that IMHO make or break them. And the reason I say this is because if you handed the TX to a Pro pilot of a flybarless heli without a controller on it, I bet he could duplicate ANY of his Hard 3D flights without much issue at all.

While I appreciate the skill level and the abilities of Pro flyers to fly the hell out of just about anything out there, I find it hard at times to use their flights as a testimony to how something will perform in the hands of the "average guy".
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09-23-2009 01:36 AM  11 years ago
Mike Fortin

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USA

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There really is no right or wrong, everyone has a different feel when they are flying THEIR own model.

Some people will test with hard 3D because that is what they know and expect the heli to feel a particular way.

Everyone has different expectations from their model and hence, it doesn't matter how YOU test something as long as it works for you and your style of flying.

Other guys will test it by hovering and forward flight, because that is their comfort zone.

Since 99% of people don't want to see a helicopter hovering around or doing forward flight, big loops or axial rolls in a video, hard 3D is the best way to show the capabilities of new equipment.

Which is why every video you see of a new product from blades to canopies to flybarless systems they are doing some form of 3D.

But most guys I know that are testing new equipment, don't continue to fly something that is setup incorrectly or not feeling very good...let alone make a video and put their name on the line with sub-par equipment.

I wouldn't do it and I don't expect anyone else to.
Have Rotors, Will Fly!
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09-23-2009 02:20 AM  11 years ago
Nate735

rrApprentice

New York

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When does the Axiom get released ?Logo 600sx, Logo 690sx
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09-23-2009 02:23 AM  11 years ago
BOOGIE

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LAFAYETTE LA

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Where do you get the Axiom system?MSH USA / Lynx Heli Innovations
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