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HomeAircraftHelicopterGasser Model RC HelicoptersOther › Operating temp comparison / cooling statistics:
10-20-2009 10:40 PM  8 years agoPost 181
Dr. FibinotchirrKey Veteran - Sioux Falls SD - My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

huh
I think I am going to puke...

Xcellgas if you put a tuned pipe on you will see larger numbers... thank you for the graph

For some that said it doesn't exist compared to what some of us others have seen, and or added comments or pictures of myth or there of now is the time to chime in. Please use words like "I knew it existed" and I knew it was short lived".

I also never ever said that it would be there minutes long and even in my video with the couple degree bump said that 'its reall quick'.

-C

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10-20-2009 11:02 PM  8 years agoPost 182
C.A.P.

rrApprentice

custer park IL.

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

[quote][U][I]There is no heat soak

I've proven it, several other people have verified it, and Cody has not posted a video contradicting the findings because most likely he couldn't find it either.
[list]

[HOW HE SAYS [quote][U][I]Exactly what I said to Carpman yesterdayIf it does rise its only around 15 seconds or so as by the time I get to it as quickly as I do on video its already going down.

[BUT WHAT HE HAS NOT SAID: I WAS WRONG AND JOHN, CAREY, AND ME, YOU GUYS WERE RIGHT,

NICE JOB: JOHN, and soon the why I'm surpise the eagle tree found it, and why raja could not find it. And the spit test Wally

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10-21-2009 12:46 AM  8 years agoPost 183
xcellgasman101

rrElite Veteran

WOODWARD, OKLA....

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I think I am going to puke...
SORRY!!! didn't mean to make you sick

Ok, Ok, We all know that it exsits!!! Now that we do,, Let's move on to how to keep it cooler, as we all know, cooler is better,, Just like me!!!

Wally,, How fast are the fan's and shrould's comming,, I think I might just have to try one,
Xcellgas if you put a tuned pipe on you will see larger numbers...:
This is very true, but you have more power too,, Now all we need to do is be able to run a tuned pipe, at cooler temps,, I think that would be the ultimate combo.. not just a tuned muffler, or just a muffler, a Tuned Pipe,, If you get one set at the right rpm, the torque is out of sight,

John Crotts
www.soonerhelicamproductions.com

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10-21-2009 12:54 AM  8 years agoPost 184
Flyon

rrApprentice

Auburn, California

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and soon the why
Wally,

Come on man, you're killing me.

Give it up. Explain yourself!

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10-21-2009 03:31 AM  8 years agoPost 185
C.A.P.

rrApprentice

custer park IL.

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I asked Carey to try a new one (I WONDER WHY!!!)that will fit in the stock shroud and he said he had come with a way to use the fan without changing it, if either work then we are half way there, the hub's are a piece of work, And will start on them very soon. So get well Carey, as our own RR Paris Hilton has proven himself to be a False God!!!!! I Love this place!!!!. Wally

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10-21-2009 03:37 AM  8 years agoPost 186
C.A.P.

rrApprentice

custer park IL.

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CHIME!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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10-21-2009 08:10 AM  8 years agoPost 187
carpman

rrVeteran

Spain

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I don't think there is a winner in this self proclaimed competition to prove heat soak one way or another. We have no gods on RR and all Raja did was do his best to show that in his opinion it did not exist. The method he used for testing was what 90% of us would use, and in my case also with this method it shows no heat soak.

What the graph proves is somewhere in the middle of what a lot of folks were proclaiming. Heat soak is there but gone by the time you stop the rotor blades to take a manual reading. So there is no need to idle the motor for a minute after flight, it looks like a 15 second idle and spool down will set the motor temperature on a downward trend.

It would be interesting to know what the Eagletree would show with a motor running a Wally fan?

So can the mystery be laid to rest, yes there is heat soak for a very small amount of time, which is undetectable by us ordinary folks?

...now lets just get flying!

KEVIN
Trex 500ESP | Trex 600NSP | Trex 700 Gasser | MA Spectra G

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10-21-2009 08:49 AM  8 years agoPost 188
pgkevet

rrKey Veteran

Wales

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You can't leave it there Kevin. There's loads more fun to be had!

So why does heat soak matter? Suggestions here state that the thermal decline suddenly changes.

OK so we see a transitory temperature increase externally. Why could this matter? Assume the argument regards piston, ring, cylinder relationships and possible damage from a change. If the temperature of the block incraeses then it has to expand, the piston is cooling and that widens the gap the ring fulfils.So perhaps one should argue the engine should be shut down earlier, immediately to avoid knocking in there. But equally contrary there ought to be a longer period of equilisation before flight to meet a steady state before load.

Of course with a lesser cooling effect externally this heatsoak will manifest less and a with a better cooling internally the core heat will be removed via the exhaust.

How about an argument on the specific heat values of the internal components against their expansion coefficients?

Jrockstuart can provide his formulae...

pgk

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10-21-2009 08:51 AM  8 years agoPost 189
shawmcky

rrElite Veteran

Isle of Wight,United Kingdom

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These things worry me
every time i start an engine,is there a prescription for it

Team- unbiased opinion.K.I.S.S principle upheld here

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10-21-2009 08:54 AM  8 years agoPost 190
carpman

rrVeteran

Spain

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Oh my...

My motor runs just fine, end of story so I think I will bow out of this topic gracefully and use my heli for what it is meant for, flying and crashing

KEVIN
Trex 500ESP | Trex 600NSP | Trex 700 Gasser | MA Spectra G

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10-21-2009 09:21 AM  8 years agoPost 191
pgkevet

rrKey Veteran

Wales

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

These things worry me
every time i start an engine,is there a prescription for it
..electrifyingly simple..
and use my heli for what it is meant for, flying and crashing
..need lessons?..I can do half of that..

pgk

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10-21-2009 10:27 AM  8 years agoPost 192
carpman

rrVeteran

Spain

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...and we all know which half!

KEVIN
Trex 500ESP | Trex 600NSP | Trex 700 Gasser | MA Spectra G

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10-21-2009 01:16 PM  8 years agoPost 193
Justin Stuart (RIP)

rrMaster

Plano, Texas

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How about an argument on the specific heat values of the internal components against their expansion coefficients?

Jrockstuart can provide his formulae...
If I'm going to provide some formulas, I will need to be certain as to the composition of the Zenoah engine? Certainly there will be an issue if the piston sleeve contracts sooner than the piston does, especially in a low oil environment such as we find after the engine is shut down. Such a mechanism could conceivably cause some engine damage (like a stuck ring), even if the heat soak conditions only last for 15 seconds (as evidenced by the data-logger).

Seems to me that once upon a time (like in the middle 80's), we would purposely stop the engine immediately after a flight with the piston in the BDC (bottom dead center) position because we were concerned about the piston seizing inside the piston sleeve. This was when we were running ABC engines which did not have a ring, and the tolerances were very tight.

Back to the issue at hand: The Zenoah engine case is obviously made of aluminum, but what about the piston sleeve and piston itself? If someone could accurately tell me what they are made of, I can research what their expansion coefficients are.

Avant RC
Scorpion Power Systems
Thunder Power RC
Kontronik Drives

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10-21-2009 02:05 PM  8 years agoPost 194
pgkevet

rrKey Veteran

Wales

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

You will need the alloy compositions too... and an anorak

pgk

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10-21-2009 02:20 PM  8 years agoPost 195
Justin Stuart (RIP)

rrMaster

Plano, Texas

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

and an anorak
What is this? Forgive me, but I am no expert on metallurgy.

Avant RC
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10-21-2009 02:55 PM  8 years agoPost 196
pgkevet

rrKey Veteran

Wales

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Anorak..isn't a metallurgical expression..it's British slang.. 'being an anorak' refers to obsessive hobbyists.. a hang-over from the days of the anorak coat being de rigeur wear for Train Spotters and the like...

..definitive wear for UFO hunting or stalking minor celebrities (and less intimidating than a ski-mask)

pgk

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10-21-2009 03:09 PM  8 years agoPost 197
Carey Shurley

rrElite Veteran

Orlando, FL - USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

he said he had come with a way to use the fan without changing it
this isn't real complicated, I developed a "spacer" that goes between the stock fan mount and stock fan shroud. It just adds space for the taller fan to fit. This would NOT use the improved shroud or redirect and I haven't had a chance to test it yet.

I seem to remember Bill or Cody did some actual testing with/without the redirect and improved shroud so they may know now what the impact of not using them is right now.

I do hope to test a "slimmer" fan though as that would be a lot simpler to use. Otherwise somebody has to manufacture a spacer or just continue to acquire the shroud/spacer. I'm not aware that there is a supply problem for them, just the fan?

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10-21-2009 04:05 PM  8 years agoPost 198
Justin Stuart (RIP)

rrMaster

Plano, Texas

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I think Wally has had some trouble finding a good fiberglass fabricator who can reliably make the shrouds to his strict tolerances.

Avant RC
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Thunder Power RC
Kontronik Drives

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10-21-2009 06:40 PM  8 years agoPost 199
Flyon

rrApprentice

Auburn, California

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I'm so disappointed...

I thought Wally was going to explain himself. I mean, it seems he was alluding to an explanation of heat soak in these small engine and why it's important to know, but I guess that's not going to happen.

He's just happy someone was able to measure it, but he said it couldn't be measured. This whole big long thread is a bunch of bull$hit! No real information has been had. I don't need to know about heat soak to run my engine successfully. Of course, I already knew that and so did anyone who has had success with a gas engine.

Wally you disappoint me. Bash, bash, bash and then offer nothing.

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10-21-2009 11:28 PM  8 years agoPost 200
C.A.P.

rrApprentice

custer park IL.

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Flyon as I said I need to setup my mill which just came in, then I will show you how much mass is taken out of Raja piston, this important to show why his 3d max stroker show a heat soak. As for the eagle tree, simple it uses a contact probe which is pushed between the fins I have use a Vernon which uses the same type of probe and could not see the affect. And I said it may not work I didn't say it would not work, but when I put it near the outside of the fin I could see the effect, So when I saw the eagle tree record it. At first I was surprised, then the eagle tree was recording all the time and I could not land stop blades stop engine turn the heli over fast enough to catch it, and remember with a heat gun you are only see the temps on the tips of the fins not the cylinder walls, where the eagle tree records it's temps. And also like on the Vernon the probe would come lose and record at the fin tips, So I learn something good about the eagle tree. So as soon as the mills setup and leveled I'll start making chips, Wally

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HomeAircraftHelicopterGasser Model RC HelicoptersOther › Operating temp comparison / cooling statistics:
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