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HomeAircraftHelicopterHIROBOHirobo Freya Docs  Electic Freya?
04-26-2010 07:03 PM  8 years agoPost 381
Dr.Ben

rrMaster

Richmond, VA, USA

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All,

As usual, Georges @ Scorpion was very responsive to my email. At first he said they were going to d/c their mount since Hirobo was doing a conversion, but when I told him that the Hirobo kit might be a little on the pricey side and not allow for those of us with EX framesets or even VPUS models, he said it would make good sense to keep selling their little kit. He also said that the next generation of 5020 motors will use 30mm bolt spacing rather than that oddball 32mm spacing, thus allowing their motors to fit anything that a Kontronics will but for way less money.

Y'all can add superb and cordial communications between customer and factory as another reason why I think Scorpion does a pretty nice job.

Ben

Peak Aircraft/Team Minicopter Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA

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04-26-2010 07:37 PM  8 years agoPost 382
ATR

rrApprentice

sweden

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...
So there is no chance to mount a 32 mm in the current scorpionmount? Will there be an option made for us with the 32mm mount?

all the best

Bjorn

Fulltime helinut!!

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05-01-2010 11:39 AM  8 years agoPost 383
SynthaxrrApprentice - Warsaw - Poland - My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Here's my bird. With Xera 470KV and Jive 80+. Seems to be pretty close to first flight. I need to set up radio, add some velcro and final look around.

Here is a process:

http://picasaweb.google.pl/maciejga...rsjaNEFreyaEvo#
and final images:
http://picasaweb.google.pl/maciejgawell/FreyaNEFinish#

Due to my diplome at school, I hope to come back to my carbon lower frame project later, after some experience with standard frame.

I would like to thank Ben and Ruedi for their help and professional assistance. In our country I know only one guy who works on Hirobo 90 conversions.

After test flights I'm going to change tail boom for carbon and also boom support joysts for carbon.

At some point it becomes your lifestyle

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05-01-2010 12:25 PM  8 years agoPost 384
l4rg0

rrApprentice

Northfield, KY - USA

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She looks great Synthax!

Good luck with her electric maiden flight!

Team A Main Hobbies/ProTek R/C
Spartan Avionics Field Rep

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05-01-2010 07:45 PM  8 years agoPost 385
Dr.Ben

rrMaster

Richmond, VA, USA

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Indeed, it looks great.

Full test report to follow, please.....

Ben

Peak Aircraft/Team Minicopter Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA

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05-01-2010 08:50 PM  8 years agoPost 386
Synthax

rrApprentice

Warsaw - Poland

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Thanks Guys,
I'll put some logs and other remarks about flight.
I'm a bit scary about stripping/autorotation bearing.. I have delay on throttle and delrin gear, but who nows what can happen.

At some point it becomes your lifestyle

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05-02-2010 02:16 AM  8 years agoPost 387
Dr.Ben

rrMaster

Richmond, VA, USA

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Do you have the ali auto housing or the stock plastic one?

Ben

Peak Aircraft/Team Minicopter Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA

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05-02-2010 09:47 AM  8 years agoPost 388
Synthax

rrApprentice

Warsaw - Poland

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Ben,
I have an alu upgraded housing. But with standard bearing. And as You see I have also second gear assy upgraded.

At some point it becomes your lifestyle

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05-02-2010 02:48 PM  8 years agoPost 389
Dr.Ben

rrMaster

Richmond, VA, USA

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Mac,

I am cautiously optimistic that the smooth power delivery of the electric motor will ease the demands on the auto bearing. The constant hammer effect of a nitro motor is hard on the bearing over the long term, as are things like abruptly clicking out of throttle hold back into idle up.

Ben

Peak Aircraft/Team Minicopter Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA

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05-04-2010 01:50 AM  8 years agoPost 390
TwelveSubZero

rrNovice

Germany

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Ben,

out of pure curiosity, i am just wondering why you guys do not use the Kontronik Combos around here.

Did you have technical issues with them or is it more a non-availability in the US, steep price tag thing?

Here in Germany we pretty much never came close to a scorpion motor or a CC ESC, mostly because Ruedi did all the testing work. So far i converted a stock Freya and a Freya EC Replica. Both birds have a Kontronik Pyro 700-45 engine and a Jive 80+HV combo in and they perform very well.

I am with you on the E3 conversions though. I am not to eager to Cut my E3 frame into 3 pieces, so we are waiting for Hirobo to come out with a solution. Nevertheless, once they do, again my VPUS Eagle gets the Kontronik treatment.

All components run very smoothly and keep cool. An 8:20 min p-schedule drains around 4000 out of my 12S 5000 packs and i got an astonishing 15 min pure hovering time with 4200 to put back in

Mostly Hirobo, because i really enjoy flying them

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05-04-2010 03:55 AM  8 years agoPost 391
Dr.Ben

rrMaster

Richmond, VA, USA

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If you had asked that question several years ago, I doubt you would have even asked it, because we would all likely be using Kontronics equipment. Over the past year, though, CC has made staggering advancements in their controller design, reliability, and governor functionality. They now work EXTREMELY well, governor included. A Jive 80HV+ is $350 USD. A Kontronic motor is about the same price. A CC 80HV like we are all using over here is $175. A Scorpion motor is $200 or less. Thus you can almost outfit a second model for the price disparity. Since the latter components are working well, there has been little reason to spend way more money. I would consider a Kontronics motor, but the CC controllers are where I want to be. As a side benefit, neither Kontronics nor any other ESC mfg has autorotation software and the set rpm mode of a CC ESC, not to mention the built in logging all in there to go with those unique features.

You can install a well running combination in a VPUS without cutting the backbone. You can either do it with a simple adapter like I made, or you can use the stock 7.9:1 ratio, Ruedi or Scorpion's mount, and a 450 kV motor. The Hirobo E3 conversion promises to be elegant, well designed, pricey, and NOT applicable to the VPUS model. Thus you'll be doing a VPUS conversion using one of the approaches I listed.

Your listed power useage is actually greater than what we're seeing over here in FAI and Class III schedules using CC ESC's and either X-Era or Scorpion motors. Gordie Meade averages well under 4000 maH for a P schedule flight, more like the mid 3000's. My Class III 8:15 flight consumes about 3400 maH's. We avoid using more than 80% of pack capacity like the plague.

Ben Minor

Peak Aircraft/Team Minicopter Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA

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05-04-2010 09:07 AM  8 years agoPost 392
TwelveSubZero

rrNovice

Germany

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Ben,

thank you for the information. I am fairly new to e-conversions and especially to converting a Freya or Eagle, preparing them for F3C. I didn´t know that the Hirobo solution will not work for the VPUS models. So far my E3 still sits on the table and has its old YS91 SR-RR built in.

I just read through the thread quickly but i think i´ll take more time now.

As far as the ESC goes i once again didn´t know that CC made such a progress. When we started seeing 90 size e-conversions here in germany years back CC ESC´s pretty much were not usable. Sounds like i´ll get one of those and compare it to my Kontronic Jive. I just looked it up on the CC website, i´ll take it you guys use the Phoenix ICE HV Controllers. Is that right?
We have a Hirobo meeting coming up next saturday in Salzburg, Austria, Ruedi will be there as well, looks like i will talk to him about the topic and see what his opinion is. I don´t know whether he has even tested a CC ESC. I do know though that he was testing a lot before he came out with his solution.

The problem is that almost every other manufacturer has an e-conversion solution for their models but Hirobo seems to be a bit slow on this.
Once again thank you for the information, but it opens a whole new world for me again as far as testing my own equipment goes.

Best Regards
Detlef

Mostly Hirobo, because i really enjoy flying them

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05-04-2010 09:22 AM  8 years agoPost 393
vfastr6

rrVeteran

Cape Town, RSA

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Hi Synthax

The conversion is looking good.

What gear ratio did you settle on with your conversion?

Cheers

Marc

I'd Rather Be Flying But I Have To Work to Pay For my Crashes!

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05-04-2010 09:25 AM  8 years agoPost 394
Synthax

rrApprentice

Warsaw - Poland

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Just one remark: which rpm is optimal in electrics for schedule P in statics and dynamics? I'm not sure if my 1350 in my second model is enough for statics. Hope to do a maiden flight this week..

I did delete front battery plate, servo whole is enough to put the 2 x battery straps, but the weight of plate was 50! grams.

Thank you Vfastr6,
Ratio is 7,9:1 (Xera 470KV+12T - I fly this season still on 10S)

At some point it becomes your lifestyle

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05-04-2010 11:03 AM  8 years agoPost 395
GM1

rrElite Veteran

Tallahassee, Florida US

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VPUS
I heard from Japan that the electric Eagle conversion will be for the AOCC only, not the VPUS.
Gordie

On a dog sled team, if you're not the lead dog, the view never changes.

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05-04-2010 01:07 PM  8 years agoPost 396
Dr.Ben

rrMaster

Richmond, VA, USA

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Guys,

Georges @ Scorpion has informed me that they will have a revised motor mount system shortly (~ 2 weeks) for the Eagle and Freya EX that will accomodate the 5020 series motors and anything else with 30 mm radii for the mounting bolts.

Those guys are seriously responsive when it comes to producing what the market needs to run their product in a given model.

Ben Minor

Peak Aircraft/Team Minicopter Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA

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05-04-2010 01:56 PM  8 years agoPost 397
cmir2425

rrApprentice

miami, fl usa

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That is great news!

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05-04-2010 06:07 PM  8 years agoPost 398
ATR

rrApprentice

sweden

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great!!!
very nice to hear!

Fulltime helinut!!

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05-29-2010 08:16 AM  8 years agoPost 399
kej

rrApprentice

Denmark

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Here is my Freya experience so far.
It is an OPIII. I use Jive80HV with 5020-450 (KV specified to 450rpm/V).
Ready to fly, except LIPOs, is 4.55kg.
Initial gearing was 93/10, but that left too little margin for 1950rpm. In this configuration the motor and ESC were not even warm after flight. P-schedule was done on 3000mAh.
Now I changed to 93/12, which leaves plenty of margin. The ESC is still cold after flight, and I can keep the hand on the motor without feeling pain. The gears are now a bit noisy (screaming), but not too bad. P-schedule takes around 3400mAh, but probably too soon for final conclusion on that.
I think maybe 11T is the right compromise for this setup.

In hover the model is simply awesome. The SSZ5 head is really nice. I use the Radix FAI.
In the aeros I still have a way to go before the model feels as good as the Turbulence (with same head) I used before.
I do not know why I feel this. Power here is incredible, but maybe the weight is getting a too high.
Maybe some of you exprienced F3C guys can describe how it feels when a model becomes too heavy?
And what is actually the weight difference between the Freya and the similar Eagle?

It should be stated that I used 12S 35C 5500mAh. These are way too big for the job, but nice for training flight times.
They weigh 1.850g resulting in a total weight of 6.4kg :-)

No stripping yet.

Kim Jensen

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05-29-2010 09:48 PM  8 years agoPost 400
Dr.Ben

rrMaster

Richmond, VA, USA

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Hey,

An Eagle or Freya EXII/III with carbon boom is a full pound lighter than what you have now. If you've not done so, at least switch the boom braces to carbon +/- the boom. Lose the mechanical plate; it's heavy as heck.

Drop back to 5000 packs since as you know it's plenty.

I think we're all in agreement that the main place we feel the weight is in the autos. Little or margin for stretching at all, but I can't see where that's a bad thing since it's a bad habit that does nothing to help your score.

Grease the gears w/ teflon or silicone based grease. When the gears start to getr noisy, it's suggestive of gear wear, mis-meshing, or lack of lubrication. Don't wait for it to strip. Mine is quite pleasant to the ear.

Ben Minor

Peak Aircraft/Team Minicopter Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA

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