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HomeAircraftHelicopterHIROBOHirobo Freya Docs  Electic Freya?
01-18-2010 04:55 AM  8 years agoPost 281
pepenk

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Jakarta, Indonesia

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Dear Dr. Ben,

my understanding if I lowered the gear ratio, the load will increase. Therefore the battery consumption will rise.
If I am using 8.8:1 ratio, do you think it will be enough margin for 5000 mAh battery?
My consumption now for full F3C schedule is 3200 mAh.

Are you using 97T main and 11T pinion?

Thanks and regards,
Ferri
INA 0083

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01-18-2010 05:55 AM  8 years agoPost 282
Dr.Ben

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Richmond, VA, USA

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Ferri,

Current CONSUMPTION increases only modestly as long as you ask no more power of the system than you did prior to the regearing. Thus if you were doing the job with somewhere in the neigborhood of 3000-3500W, you won't consume significantly more power with a taller gear ratio unless you ask the system for over 4000W, for example, with more pitch at the same RPM.

In hover, when I changed gearing to 8.8 (11/97), my current increased about 2 or 3 amps. In reality, it really increased little or nothing because I also increased the headspeed about 20 rpm to 1500 to make things a little easier on the ESC's FET's with the taller gearing. Upstairs, the peak current increased around 10 amps. Now, on one flight the peak current increased by 22 amps, but I had also accidentally overpitched the model, and it gave me 4000 watts of power in return.

The main reason I started messing with gear ratios is because the logging data showed the headspeed was dropping off about 100 rpm in maneuvers such as rolls while the ESC's "throttle" was wide open. I wanted a bit more headroom for the governor.

Wednesday is supposed to be nice here, and I'm off in the afternoon. I'll fly some more and see how much of a hit I'm taking on runtime.

Remember that while I went to the other end of the spectrum for the available gearing for this model, you have 9.1 and 9.3 from which to choose as well. The only way you can make rational decisions about gearing and other set up changes is to log the data. Log your model in flight and see what it's doing. The best choice for you may be to change NOTHING.

Ben Minor

Peak Aircraft/Team Minicopter Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA

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01-18-2010 07:00 AM  8 years agoPost 283
pepenk

rrApprentice

Jakarta, Indonesia

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Thanks Dr. Ben.

Now I'm using Phoenix HV 110 with no data logging capabilities. May be i will borrow my friend Eagle Three system.

But from my feeling during flight and other spectator impression, it looks like the heli fly flawlessly without any head speed drop during manuver. two point roll in opposite direction was done easily.

Hope your guess is right, so i don't have to change anything.

Do you recommend me to change the ESC to ICE HV 80?

Thanks and regards,
Ferri
INA 0083

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01-18-2010 01:07 PM  8 years agoPost 284
Dr.Ben

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Richmond, VA, USA

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Ferri,

Get an ICE the next time you need a new one. For now just borrow your friend's Eagle Tree logger. Flying a new set up without confirming what it's really doing is an iffy proposition at best. Sometimes what you don't know can hurt you even with a set up known good on another model. Make sure you log rpm since the Eagletree doesn't measure ESC power out like the Castle Logger will.

If the logger data support the system is runnning safely WRT the batteries and ESC, and you're happy with the way it's flying, leave it alone.

Ben Minor

PS: Change your motor shaft out when you get a chance to the newest hardened version from Scorpion. It's not cheap, but you need to do all you can to protect against a broken motor shaft since, like I, you can't run top motor shaft support.

Peak Aircraft/Team Minicopter Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA

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01-20-2010 12:56 AM  8 years agoPost 285
Qooo

rrApprentice

Hong Kong

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Thanks Ben,

I will try your suggestion out. Big thanks to you!!

DX7 - FREYA EVO90 SWM - LEPTON EX 6S - LOGO400 VBAR 6S - LOGO600 VBAR 12S

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01-20-2010 11:18 AM  8 years agoPost 286
pepenk

rrApprentice

Jakarta, Indonesia

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Dr. Ben,
The shaft that you suggest is the one from Scorpion website which cost US$ 35 each? I see the motor shaft at Esprit hobby website that cost only US$ 8. This should be different, right?

BTW, after you changing gear ratio and ESC to ICE, is there any parameter in the ESC program which you change from the previous program you sendto me?

THanks and regards,
Ferri Iriandi
INA 0083

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01-20-2010 11:34 AM  8 years agoPost 287
luixitoyo

rrApprentice

Lausanne - Switzerland

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KDE also has a shaft for this motors. I think is a longer one with 41mm lenght.

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01-20-2010 03:54 PM  8 years agoPost 288
chas1025

rrVeteran

TN

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Qo,

You might want to play with your governor gain some more. I can tell by the sound of the video that your gain is off.

Charles

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01-20-2010 05:59 PM  8 years agoPost 289
Dr.Ben

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Richmond, VA, USA

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It sounded a little too low to me. They file he has was straight off of my model, but I'm running more headspeed, and on my model I had the gain as high as the system would tolerate without hunting.

Ben

Peak Aircraft/Team Minicopter Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA

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01-20-2010 09:08 PM  8 years agoPost 290
luixitoyo

rrApprentice

Lausanne - Switzerland

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The first flight was today and it is really sweet!!
I fly only hover at 1300rpm, 1600rpm and 1700rpm during aprox 4 minutes. I charged 1200mAh.

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01-23-2010 07:52 PM  8 years agoPost 291
Synthax

rrApprentice

Warsaw - Poland

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Do you think that 5000mah 10S is enough to fly pretty safe a schedule P?

At some point it becomes your lifestyle

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01-23-2010 10:53 PM  8 years agoPost 292
Dr.Ben

rrMaster

Richmond, VA, USA

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If the wind gets up, and you start leaning on the collective for power, it's going to be very close. My friends are typically seeing
P Schedule flights consuming 3500W +/- a few 100W 12S. You'll be hard pressed see that efficiency with a 10S set up.

Were I in your shoes, I'd be considering 12S to avoid the stress of always worrying if there will be enough.

Ben Minor

Peak Aircraft/Team Minicopter Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA

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01-24-2010 02:18 PM  8 years agoPost 293
pepenk

rrApprentice

Jakarta, Indonesia

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Dear All,

Just to share the bad and good story.
Yesterday my 95T main gear stripped during 2 of 2 point rolls in opposite direction. But the E3e autorotation safely.

Today I change the main gear with 93T. Hover now at 1,550 rpm and upstair 2,000. Have 2 full new FAI manuver and the batteries only need to be charged of 3,400 mAh for each flight. The heli now could make an even bigger manuver and higher forward speed. More smiles on my face. A lot of thank you to Dr Ben for all of his help.

Now I'm using CC 110 HV. Could it make any differences if I change to CC 85 HV with the same program parameter?

Thanks and ragards,
Ferri
INA 0083

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01-24-2010 03:47 PM  8 years agoPost 294
Dr.Ben

rrMaster

Richmond, VA, USA

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Ferri,

The model will run exactly the same way with the HV85 (or ICE80), but you'll save weight b/c it's lighter.

If you are in a position to purchase a new controller, get the ICE80 b/c it has logger functionality built in.

Did you have grease on the maingear that stripped?

Ben

Peak Aircraft/Team Minicopter Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA

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01-24-2010 08:43 PM  8 years agoPost 295
luixitoyo

rrApprentice

Lausanne - Switzerland

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Hi all:
Today two more hover flights to my machine.
5 minutes flying hover manouvres take 1700mAh. What do you think?
Rotorhead speed was 1500rmp

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01-25-2010 01:31 AM  8 years agoPost 296
Dr.Ben

rrMaster

Richmond, VA, USA

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Luis,

That's right in line with what you should expect.

Ben

Peak Aircraft/Team Minicopter Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA

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01-26-2010 03:39 PM  8 years agoPost 297
pepenk

rrApprentice

Jakarta, Indonesia

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Dr. Ben,

I did not grease the maingear that was stripped.
But I think the gear was stripped due to the mesh was too loose as previously I had motor shaft broken. Since then I set the gearmesh a little too loose and this might initiate the gear ro strip.

Now I have grease the new 93T gear and set the gearmesh tighter than the previous one. Hope this will not stripped the gear nor break the motor shaft again.

Thanks and regards,
Ferri
INA 0083

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01-26-2010 06:33 PM  8 years agoPost 298
Dr.Ben

rrMaster

Richmond, VA, USA

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Ferri,

I can't remember.... Were you able to source one of the new harder Scorpion motor shafts when you replaced the shaft? The bottom of the shaft has a hole in its end unlike the previous version

If it fails again, I have some confidence that the size of the Revco 11 T pinion will allow a tie-in to the upper bearing stack. With the motor up in my model with 8.8 gearing, the motor shaft appears dead centered on the existing start shaft bearing.

Thanks,
Ben

Peak Aircraft/Team Minicopter Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA

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01-29-2010 07:43 AM  8 years agoPost 299
pepenk

rrApprentice

Jakarta, Indonesia

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Dr. Ben,
I've seen the harden replacement motor shaft at Scorpion website. However, I have not ordered yet as i already get it from Esprit Hobby. Beside at US$ 35 is rather expensive for motor shaft compare with US$ 8 for standard shaft.

That will be a better arrangement for E3. We can use the upper bearing block then. Where can I buy the Revco 11T pinion?

BTW, at my last flight, my tail was blown away during backward roll. Was this might be due to head speed drop? At that time nobody measure the headspeed during backward roll.

Thanks and regards,
Ferri
INA 0083

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01-29-2010 01:13 PM  8 years agoPost 300
Dr.Ben

rrMaster

Richmond, VA, USA

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Don't buy another pinion until I see if the alignment will work. Eyeballing it thus far doesn't accurate predict how it will align. I'm going to check it in a few days.

I doubt the headspeed dropped a whole lot, certainly no more than 100rpm. If you got the tail crooked early on in the roll, you may have just stalled the tail blades.

Ben Minor

PS: $35 is a lot for a shaft, but if I can't make the alignment work for the 11t gear, then it will be a bargain in terms of insurance against a crash. You'll kick yourself if you pinched $25 and end up with a terribly costly crash when/if the older version shaft fails in a bad spot in the air.

Peak Aircraft/Team Minicopter Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA

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