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06-21-2009 06:56 PM  11 years ago
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cmsilvoy

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Durham, NC

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Violence at Walt Disney World
On Saturday night, my family and I witnessed at senseless act of violence at Disney World.
In summary, a 20'ish year old A.A. male, about 5'8 and 190 lbs. beat the ever living Sh!t out of a 61 year old man while they were moving through a crowd because the old guy could not "keep the line moving."
The old guy ended up with a broken Jaw and a bunch of bruises, but what stunned me the most is that there were only 3 of us who stopped watching the fireworks and tried to help the defenseless older man.
Everybody else looked down, and then up again.

To make things worse, the perp just started to walk away. I followed him through the crowds until I found a Disney staff member, but by the time security got involved, the animal that brutalized a perfect stranger for no reason whatsoever walked out of the park with hundreds of other visitors leaving at the same time.

My perspective of public safety and public responsibility have been forever changed. I doubt that Disney would have had the resources to directly deal with the problem immmediately.
I just wish that I had the skill set to have diffused the situation and taken down the perpetrator myself.
So, starting tomorrow, I will begin training to make sure that in the future, the outcome of such a situation would be much different.

Chris
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06-21-2009 07:06 PM  11 years ago
InvertedDude

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cmsilvoy
Get a taser, easy to use and train. Will take any perp down anytime. Sorry to hear that you experienced a crime.

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06-21-2009 09:18 PM  11 years ago
gmcullan

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Southbridge, MA

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Shotokan karate, and then cross train in Akido or Jujitsu. I've only had to use my skills once in a "real" situation, but I was able to quickly defuse the situation and hold the perp for law-inforcement. The cool thing is that with proper training, you only use the skills and techniques you need. After the incident, my wife asked why I didn't tear the guy apart. But that wasn't the goal. The goal was to make the situation safe and secure the perp.

I'm a Shodan (1st-degree Black Belt) and had been training for my Nidan (2nd-degree Black Belt) when a health issue took me out of training. Of all things, I just stopped by the Dojo this week to see about returning to my training.
Gerry Cullan,
Gaui 200, 255; T-Rex 250, 450 SE & SA, Mini-Titan, Blade 450
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06-21-2009 09:24 PM  11 years ago
gian

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AZ

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My jaw was broken in a similar cheap-shot incident downtown Milwaukee... Some people just get wild I guess.
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06-22-2009 01:08 AM  11 years ago
quattrokid73

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Huntingdon Valley, PA, USA

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some people dont just get wild...some people are not fit for society and deserve the harshest extent of the law.Aero-Model/Hacker Brushless/Mikado 2007
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06-22-2009 01:10 AM  11 years ago
AirWolfRC

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Get a CCW . . . .

Sounds about as thoughtless and selfish as the guy that got arrested for shooting the guy sitting front of him in the arm at a theater because he decided he was blocking his view. I believe he's in jail now.
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06-22-2009 04:24 AM  11 years ago
Rappy 60

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Unfortunately you will not be able to take a gun or stun gun into Disney, they look for that sort of stuff.

Dale
Load "*",8,1
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06-22-2009 04:43 AM  11 years ago
lfalsetto

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I commend you for your involvement, some people are just in their own little world, prayers for the injured gentleman.
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06-22-2009 04:45 AM  11 years ago
Havoc

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Ky.

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You need to be careful using lethal force in defense of someone else. You have much greater liability than if you are acting in defense of yourself and need to be sure you fully understand the situation you are observing. OC spray would have been a good thing to have.
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06-22-2009 05:38 AM  11 years ago
Machinehead01

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Lower Michigan

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Welcome to the world we now live in.
Sorry to hear about this. Unfortunately it seems to be more common place then we may realise. I work the other side of law inforcement,IE a keeper. The generation we now have coming into the prison systems have no concept of the worth of another human life. If you have it, and they want it, THEY WILL TAKE IT. I see the worst of the worst on a day to day basis, they look upon the elderly as just somebody that can't defend themselves and an easy target. Most of these next genners have been brought up in the age of faster tech that brings them what they want sooner, so they are not used to waiting on things. I believe that we have done our children a disservice with this as those of us that are older tend to remember what it was like having to wait for things, it taught us to be patient and to learn control. When we ask ourselves how this kind of thing can happen we need only to look no farther then the one person who causes this kind of behavior, ME. It's all about ME nowadays. When somebody takes the time to think about somebody else and put that person or persons in front of themselves, this kind of thing doesn't happen,a lot of the next genners don't get this or will take the time to even try to understand it.
Just my 2 cents.

Thomas
"You judge according to the flesh; I am not judging anyone."
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06-22-2009 01:48 PM  11 years ago
NRoof

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So, starting tomorrow, I will begin training to make sure that in the future, the outcome of such a situation would be much different.
You don't say what type of training you are planning but the most common and practical would be martial arts. If this is the case really research what school you decide to go to.

There are a lot of schools out there that are nothing more than belt factories. I know I was in one.

Check out these sites:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDojo
http://mcdojo-faq.tripod.com/

I don't fully agree with the full contact hard sparring talked about in the second link. I believe sparring is necessary but safeguards need to be in place to protect the students from real injury.
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06-22-2009 02:25 PM  11 years ago
A. Bundy

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Unfortunately you will not be able to take a gun or stun gun into Disney, they look for that sort of stuff.
That's why he could beat that guy up without worry.
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06-22-2009 02:52 PM  11 years ago
mmc205

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PA - USA

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I think force has to be met with equal force, not greater force. Taking a gun to a fistfight only begs for future escalation. Half of the reason for the mess we're in now is that everyone wants to one-up others instead of fighting fair. When i was a kid, fist fights were fist fights. Nobody would have thought to bring a gun or knife, that was dishonorable and stupid. Both guys walked away, a little worse for wear but alive and with an adjusted sense of morality.

Those who always want to involve a gun, what if you or your kid is in a situation where the other guy is a real gun advocate and he thinks the situation calls for shooting first and asking questions later even though you or your kid is just helping save someone else's neck but it isn't obvious. In the poster's story, what if he had jumped in quick and save the old man. At a glance its hard to know who's doing what.
***Logo 600 vbar***Henseleit TDR vbar***
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06-22-2009 04:05 PM  11 years ago
Camp

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PA kinda. Mostly OTR driving

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Nidan (2nd-degree Black Belt)
Ironically I began my training because of an incident very similar to this one. Saw it on the boardwalk of Asbury Park. I was 18, took me till I was 35 to make Nidan. Now at 45 I'm certain there are some things I can't do anymore but I'm confident I could take down almost any A-hole who is hurting someone. Glad I've never had to.

Standing up for someone else is the highest form of chivalry. My 2c
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06-22-2009 04:29 PM  11 years ago
lfalsetto

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COLORADO

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I will say taking self defense courses are great but don't let it get you in an unsafe position. I started BudaKaKan 30 years ago, our instructors were two police officers. Their best advice was to Defend and then get safe. In this situation with so many people with cameras the best thing is disrupt the situation take a picture of the perp and help the injured. You never know what a guy capable of doing what he did is on.
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06-22-2009 06:11 PM  11 years ago
MX400 DUDE

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Oklahoma

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Like everyone else has said, you have to be careful getting involved in that situation. Anyway, for your training I recommend getting a strong base in ONE discipline. These MMA schools are a total joke. What they end up with are students that know a little bit of Jiu-Jitsu, boxing, ect, but are not proficient at any of them. I'm a black belt in traditional Tae Kwon Do, so I know how to handle myself on my feet. However, since a great deal of fights end up on the ground, we cross train in grappling/ Jiu-Jitsu. Also, like someone else said, a lot of schools are just belt factories (typically the large schools). Go to several different places and watch some classes, you need to be impressed by whats going on. It's also a good idea to see what the instructor(s) background is. Previous or current Professional fighters are a plus, IMO. Find a school that spars as well. You can't learn to swim without getting in the water, fighting is the same concept. Full contact sparring is something you should experience once you are a Black Belt, but probably not before. You need to experience the fear and adrenaline that comes from fighting someone dangerous. Its so much different from casual sparring and will help prepare you for the real deal should it ever happen. These are just my opinions. Take care and be safe.
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06-22-2009 06:29 PM  11 years ago
gmcullan

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Good point, Ifalsetto. My Senseis always made a point of driving home the concept that you learn karate so you don't fight and to have the strength and conviction to walk away. But, if there is no other option, you can defend yourself. That is also the reason for cross training in Akido and Jujitsu, as they are basically defensive. You just let your attackers use their momentum to subdue ( and possibly injure ) themselves.

My Dojo did train full-contact. Yes, we wore sparing gear, but it could still hurt. But part of the training was learning how to take a blow. There are techniques that can minimize and deflect energy.

By the way, the injury that took me out of training was a closed-head brain injury. It ocurred during training, and I was wearing a sparing helmet. I was fighting two opponents and a hook kick took me in the back of the head. Initially diagnosed as a concussion, it turned out to be much more. It was a nightmare. First my wife was told I wasn't going to survive, then that I'd be a veggie, then that I might make it back as a 5-year old. Here I am, 9 years later, and other than short term memory issues, I'm pretty much back to normal.
Gerry Cullan,
Gaui 200, 255; T-Rex 250, 450 SE & SA, Mini-Titan, Blade 450
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06-22-2009 06:40 PM  11 years ago
A. Bundy

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I think force has to be met with equal force, not greater force. Taking a gun to a fistfight only begs for future escalation. Half of the reason for the mess we're in now is that everyone wants to one-up others instead of fighting fair.
Fair like beating up an old man? I don't advocate being Bronson from death wish but if the guy doesn't know who is carrying or not maybe it doesn't happen in the first place.
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06-22-2009 06:47 PM  11 years ago
AirWolfRC

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I don't care about "equal force", that's for the "politicaly correct" croud.

I'm for stopping the threat and one in the leg will do that nicely.
. . . and it gives the perp' a chance to think about "the error of his ways".
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06-22-2009 06:56 PM  11 years ago
whirlyspud

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USA

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Force being met with equal force is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. You ever hear of an aneurysm? Anyone thinking about throwing punch's better hope they don't get shot. gmcullan's post above is a damn good example of what could happen. And he had pads! If you ever find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics SUCK. Nobody here is talking about kids fighting in the school yard.

Mike
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