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Home✈️Aircraft🚁Helicoptere-AlignT-REX 450 › How Can I Speed up my Tail Resonse?
06-21-2009 05:48 PM  11 years ago
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nheather

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Horsham, West Sussex, UK

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How Can I Speed up my Tail Resonse?
I have an Align 450 non-CCPM type. Not kitted out paticularly special.

Has

Stock Motor
Generic Battery (2200mAh, 20C)
Generic servos on main rotor
Hitec HS-50 servo on tail
Futaba GY-240 Gyro

The tail is set up mechanically to move through the whole range possible.

The tail rod is connected to the outmost hole on the servo horn.

Whilst all the other controls are lively, the tail is pretty slow.

I appreciate that the GY-240 is the fastest gyro and I do regret not getting the GY-401 but I have to stick by my decision now.

With the exception of changing the gyro, is there anything I can do to speed up the tail response?

I'm not after huge pyros, just a reasonable response to tail inputs - they are very sedentry at the moment (almost laggy).

Cheers,

Nigel
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06-21-2009 05:57 PM  11 years ago
ppridday

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Detroit Lakes MN

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Have you changed the rudder end points in your Tx?

Paul
"There's someone in my head, but it's not me..."
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06-21-2009 06:37 PM  11 years ago
nheather

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Horsham, West Sussex, UK

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No, but I've just started looking at that.

I notice that the push rod is not connected to the outer hole in the servo horn - it is connected to the only hole.

At the moment I'm guessing that if I increase the end points then it is going to bind since 100% ATV takes it through the whole movement.

So the next experiment is to drill a hole in the servo horn closer in - that should allow me to increase the ATV but I suppose I'll lose resolution on the rudder (but that's probably not such a big deal).

Cheers,

Nigel
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06-21-2009 07:49 PM  11 years ago
Gyronut

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Martinsville In.

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Did I read that correctly, your using a HS50 for the tail..??

I think you found your problem already..........

You have to increase your Tx ATV's if you want to increase your piro rate.
Rick
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06-21-2009 08:05 PM  11 years ago
Skarn

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Pasadena, MD

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Rudder endpoints do not control binding with a HH gyro. The gyro itself is in control of your rudder servo...

All rudder endpoints do is control your piro rate, so yes, increase them and your tail will be quicker.

Skarn
It's better to burn out than to fade away...
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06-21-2009 08:35 PM  11 years ago
RobMcQuillen

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Rochester, NY

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You could go with a Faster Tail servo like a Futaba s9257. I use them on all my helicopter's and there plenty fast.Rob McQuillen
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06-21-2009 09:02 PM  11 years ago
nheather

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Horsham, West Sussex, UK

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Rudder endpoints do not control binding with a HH gyro. The gyro itself is in control of your rudder servo...
Not sure about that - just want to test my understanding.

So imagine in RATE mode an ATV of 140% pushes the rotor mechanism into its limit and causes servo binding.

Then if I switch to HH mode and I push the rudder stick fully right or left then the gyro won't push the mechanism into the endpoint.

If not, how does it stop it, how does it know, I don't understand.
Did I read that correctly, your using a HS50 for the tail..??
Yes you did. What's wrong with it - not that I'm defending it, I just don't know.

I selected it as a 6g servo, that is spec'ed at 0.09s per 60deg, which on paper at least seems pretty good for an economy setup.

But if it is the wrong choice I'd be more than happy to be put right.
You could go with a Faster Tail servo like a Futaba s9257.
You fly with a 26g standard size servo on the tail of a 450? - must look odd and need plenty of nose weight.

Cheers,

Nigel
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06-22-2009 07:30 PM  11 years ago
Skarn

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Pasadena, MD

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The 9257 is not a full size servo and is perfect for the trex 450. The 9650 used to be the "standard" tail servo for the 450, but most are using the 9257 now..it's faster.

I use an HS-50 for my Honybee King but would not use it in my 450...

Skarn
It's better to burn out than to fade away...
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06-22-2009 07:48 PM  11 years ago
RobMcQuillen

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Rochester, NY

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The S9257 with a spartan gyro (i know its a overkill) works great for me. Tail holds like a rock and is perfect speed for me.Rob McQuillen
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06-22-2009 07:49 PM  11 years ago
Skarn

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Pasadena, MD

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Oh and to answer about the endpoints...I originally missed that you are using a 240...for that gryo, you do use endpoints to stop binding...but unfortunately at the sacrifice of tail speed. But again, unfortunately, that gyro is a slow gyro anyway. If you had a 401, it has a limit pot for binding, then you could adjust the atv's to get faster piro, but you are limited with that gyro..it's a low end gyro.

One thing you can do is change the mechanical setup to allow higher Travel Adjust. Move the ball in on the servo arm. That will reduce the travel, allowing higher Travel Adjust without binding....

Or get a 401 for about $80

Good luck,
Skarn
It's better to burn out than to fade away...
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06-22-2009 08:03 PM  11 years ago
ppridday

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Detroit Lakes MN

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My bad too... I did not know that about the 240... As noted with the 401 you can dial the end points in and with the Spartan you can individually dial end points.

Paul
"There's someone in my head, but it's not me..."
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06-23-2009 02:30 PM  11 years ago
nheather

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Horsham, West Sussex, UK

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Or get a 401 for about $80
About $128 in the UK unfortunately. For $80 I'd definitely upgrade.

Anyway, I've cranked up the ATVs - it does bind but has improved the response greatly.

Cheers,

Nigel
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06-23-2009 03:20 PM  11 years ago
ppridday

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Detroit Lakes MN

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Can you not back off the ATV's in your TX until it is just touching the stops? If it is binding then you are getting no benefit over it just being at the extent of left and right travel. With a 401 you are limited with travel adjust to one point left and right. Other gyro's are independent left and right. I would take the ATV to the maximum on whichever throw tops out on your tail shaft first and go with that. Otherwise you will shorten the life of your servo.

Paul
"There's someone in my head, but it's not me..."
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06-23-2009 08:06 PM  11 years ago
Skarn

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Pasadena, MD

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Again, move your ball in in closer then you can increase the ATVs even more.

Skarn
It's better to burn out than to fade away...
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06-23-2009 08:26 PM  11 years ago
MikeInMobile

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Mobile, Alabama

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Put carbon fiber tail blades on it .... the gyro WILL be more responsve
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06-24-2009 05:41 AM  11 years ago
dkshema

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Cedar Rapids, IA

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The GY 240 does NOT have a travel limit feature as the 401 and most other "better" gyros have. The ATV settings really will allow you to drive the servos to the stops. The lack of the travel limit feature requires some skill in making this gyro perform well.

The limits have to be set mechanically, choosing the correct distance out from center on the servo to the link is about the only real option you have. The 240 is a bit more difficult to set up, as a result. You have to experiment with the hole location to eliminate binding at the travel endpoints.

And believe it or not, the HS50 isn't a piece of crap servo. It's FAST, small, and light. Once upon a time it was the gold standard. It may not have that fancy "digital" word attached, but it's no slouch, by any means.

But yes, increasing the rudder travel endpoints will increase the piro rate, decreasing will slow down the piro rate.

Moving the ball inwards as Skarn advises allows you to run higher gains, get a lot more resolution on the servo, and allows you to crank up the ATVs to increase piro rates. The higher gain and better servo resolution translates to very controllable piro rates. It also allows you to adjust the piro rate from mild to wild by tweaking the ATV settings.
-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz
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