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06-19-2009 02:26 AM  11 years ago
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iceman320

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utah

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servo question
I have a question on servo's. I know that the cyclic servo's all have to be the same, but does the servo for the tail have to match the cyclic servo's? thanks
esky belt cp 450, just built exi 450 pro, trext 500esp, trex 600esp
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06-19-2009 02:29 AM  11 years ago
Gregor99

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Western Wa

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Nope. For cyclic servos, speed is not as important as torque. Digital is plus, not nessesily required. Tail servos need to be fast. But don't need a lot of torque. Digital isn't required but highly recommended.Revolectrix Beta Team
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06-19-2009 03:15 AM  11 years ago
iceman320

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sweet cause I have been thinking about putting the hitec 65-mg servo that I have on the tail rotor with my esky hh gyro that i got. and then moving the esky tail servo to one of the other spots on the heli. could i do that?esky belt cp 450, just built exi 450 pro, trext 500esp, trex 600esp
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06-19-2009 04:43 AM  11 years ago
Melnic

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I've found that the tail servo is the most important servo. Fast and digital. I have a couple helis with cheap analog servos on the cyclic but fast digital on the tail.
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06-19-2009 04:58 AM  11 years ago
Gregor99

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Oh one more thing. Metal gears are commonly more desirable on the cyclic because they will hold up better in a crash. Not always, but its common for tail servos with plastic gears to be undamaged in crash.

The HS-65 is not desirable as a tail servo. Its not digital, and its somewhat slow for a tail servo (.14 at 4.8v). I'm not sure how that compares to the stock Eskys.

That being said, I'd be tempted to try it. Worst thing that could happen is that it doesn't work out and you total your heli. But be aware, tail setup can be complicated and frustating. If you tail is working well enough to hover, then I'd leave it alone for a while. Spend your time working on the skills and less time on the bench. As you've found, you'll already be spending more time on the bench than you may want.
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06-19-2009 05:29 PM  11 years ago
TJinGuy

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<soapbox>
Any speed servo will hold the tail in a hover and I mean any servo whether it is .07sec/60* or .24sec/60*. The response of the tail as things change is affected by the servo chosen but not the actual holding of the tail in a hover. People love to say you HAVE to have a $60 or $120 super high speed digital servo on the tail but ONLY if you want a perfect tail. If you are learning how to hover then a $60 tail servo will do no better than a $10 servo. Besides .14sec/60* is plenty fast for his use.
</soapbox>
- Chris

Team New Mexico
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06-19-2009 07:53 PM  11 years ago
Gregor99

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Everyone's experience will vary. I spent alot of time, especially in the begining, fighting a miss behaving tail. Lots of tweaking this and that, when my issues were really caused by trying to save a few bucks on the tail servo.

I just wish I could get back all that time back. I can't, but perhaps I can spare someone else the time lost and the frustation with go-in cheap.

Also, I did say this:
That being said, I'd be tempted to try it
Revolectrix Beta Team
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06-19-2009 07:59 PM  11 years ago
TJinGuy

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Do remember that you never used a GY240. They are super, and I mean, super simple and solid. They are very low performance but i takes pretty much zero effort to get them to simply hold the tail in a hover. So keep that in mind.- Chris

Team New Mexico
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06-20-2009 01:17 AM  11 years ago
Melnic

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<soapbox>
Any speed servo will hold the tail in a hover and I mean any servo whether it is .07sec/60* or .24sec/60*. The response of the tail as things change is affected by the servo chosen but not the actual holding of the tail in a hover. People love to say you HAVE to have a $60 or $120 super high speed digital servo on the tail but ONLY if you want a perfect tail. If you are learning how to hover then a $60 tail servo will do no better than a $10 servo. Besides .14sec/60* is plenty fast for his use.
</soapbox>
There might be an exception to that. When I had slow analog servos and flew in the wind, I found the tail did not hold well. Wing gusts would jerk the tail around as I could not have a high enough gain w/ the slower servo. Not that 15mph winds are good for novices to learn hovering but I'd say that with windy conditions, tail holding really helps to make it more enjoyable. When I put a scale fuse on my 450 it was noticably more affected by the wind. I pulled the analog servo (I though it would be fine for scale flying) then put in a digital and it was much more improved in the wind. By the way, I'm prefectly happy w/ my $30 hyperions so far. I think there are lots of reasonable high speed digitals for less than $40 (isn't there a pretty good JR digital for a 450 around $30?)
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06-20-2009 01:28 AM  11 years ago
MMike

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Holland,Mi-USA

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DS290
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06-20-2009 02:04 AM  11 years ago
MMike

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Is your gyro digital capable?
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06-20-2009 02:07 AM  11 years ago
zaw

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Slow servo causes Drift and Hunting.ಠ_ಠ HBK2 built with inexpensive parts! ٩๏̯͡๏)۶ Gaui425
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06-20-2009 02:24 AM  11 years ago
fenderstrat

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man the servo of choice was a 9650 for doing 3d(on a 450) for a long time and its .14 at 4.8V, dudes were doing HARD 3d with that and a 401.Compass helis Support Team
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06-20-2009 02:28 AM  11 years ago
fenderstrat

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Slow servo causes Drift and Hunting
not if set up right,I guarantee a 9650 with any good gyro out there,will hold for anything anybody that posts regularly on this forum can throw at it

I am not saying a nice digital servo/gyro combo aint nice,i got 4 or 5 here right now,but lets keep it real, for most of us we are not pushing the helis anywhere near the capabilties of even average gear
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06-20-2009 02:31 AM  11 years ago
TJinGuy

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Slow servos most definitely DO NOT cause drifting. It is the gyros job hold a specific direction and the servo has no bearing on that. They can cause a "loose" tail and can wag in the wind because they are not fast enough but they don't cause wag all by themselves. That is caused by other issues but can be made worse by slower servos.

It just bugs me that people always try to speed things up to solve problems. Whether it is cranking up head speed or spending money on faster servos. I guess we all have different approaches
- Chris

Team New Mexico
TJinTech
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06-20-2009 02:35 AM  11 years ago
fenderstrat

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exactly, drifting is a gyro thing and wag is caused by a mistake that 90% of new guys do...too much gain,most guys could EASILY take 5-8(or more) points off their gain settings and it would make no difference.all you are doing is making the stops hard and beating the crap out of your servoCompass helis Support Team
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06-20-2009 02:53 AM  11 years ago
Gregor99

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Western Wa

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Wow! All I said was it was not desirable as a tail servo and "That being said, I'd be tempted to try it."

Who said anything about going out and buying a faster servo or cranking up the headspeed? Iceman has the servo laying around, there's no cost to him. Why not give it try? But TODAY if you were putting together a new kit, would you choose this as your tail servo? NO. At least I wouldn't. Maybe others would.

The other thing I said was that I don't know anything about the Esky servos. We know thier electronics are low end. But thier latest servos are digital, and on specs alone are faster than the HS-65 by .4 seconds, which is huge. On paper the Esky is actually a better servo for the tail than the HS-65. But like I said, maybe the Esky numbers are pure fiction and its just not as reliable the Hitec. Regardless, I did say I'd be tempted to try it.

Speaking of throwing headspeed at the problem, I've been guilty of that, sure. But I've tested it and found there were many things I liked about it. But even more things I didn't. I'm now testing out the other end of the specktrum to see how my helis react to low headspeed. So far its not as simple as lowering the headspeed. That actually brings out different problems with both my helis. But that was the point to experiment and really get to know the pros and cons different setups.

I'll likely end up somewhere in the middle. But at least I know first hand what the extremes feel like and can make a judgement call based on experience instead of trying to parse the text of forum for applicability to my taste.
Revolectrix Beta Team
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06-20-2009 02:55 AM  11 years ago
Gregor99

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Western Wa

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all you are doing is making the stops hard and beating the crap out of your servo
And your belt. When setting my gain, I start from the bottom (a low number, not 0)and work my way up until get the feel and hold I'm after. That's often along way away from the point the tail starts to wag.
Revolectrix Beta Team
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06-20-2009 03:08 AM  11 years ago
fenderstrat

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When setting my gain, I start from the bottom (a low number, not 0)and work my way up until get the feel and hold I'm after. That's often along way away from the point the tail starts to wag.
yes thats what i do,also.which is the exact opposite as many.I try to use the lowest gain that holds,not the highest gain that wont wag.

I also dont concern myself too much with the full throttle punchout thing.if the tail kicks out .0000000001mm and comes right back in, I dont worry as long as it holds well for the manuvers i am flying.I see so many guys obsessed with the tail not moving during a full throttle blip,why?if thats what you do all day,cool,fly away and enjoy yourself,but i dont see basing your whole entire tail set up technique over something thats not a major portion of your flight plan

but then again i seem to do lots of stuff a little different
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06-20-2009 03:15 AM  11 years ago
Gregor99

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Western Wa

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I see so many guys obsessed with the tail not moving during a full throttle blip,why?
This may not be true for most, but I use the punchout test to find problems with the tail setup. When I first started doing flips with the HBK2, I found that the tail would wag back and forth all the way around. Mind you, this is with very poor collective mgmt.

Using the punchout test, I found the tail was simply not keeping up if the head speed dropped. I've since increased the tail rotor speed, and modified tail to give much more pitch on the blades. That not only fixed the flipping issue, but it also alowed me to lower the headspeed. Doing the punchout test, its easier to see how the tail is reacting than to try and watch it during a flip.
Revolectrix Beta Team
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