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06-18-2009 11:29 PM  11 years ago
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J_Cunny

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Austin, Texas

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So...wags, wags, wags....
Ok Guys,

Here's one for you to ponder (I still trying to figure it out), I have a 450 that just can't get the wags to go away. I'm using a Gy240 and an HS-82mg on the tail. I a 3 foot hover she has noticiablt tail wagging. It's not unflyable, maybe she goes out 4 to 5 inches from center. Reducing the gain brings on the major slow wags, increasing the gain decreases the amount of wag, but it is waging much faster on a shorter travel. I use a the standard HiTech wheel on the servo, so I'm just about as close as I can get to the center of servo travel. My blades track well, and the rest of the heli has no viasable vibes. I would guestimate the headspeeed in pretty close to the stock Belt Cp speeds, as I'm using the HDX-3800 on this one. Like I said it's not that she won't fly, it's just kinda a nuisance, that I'd like to get fixed.

Any thoughts???

JC
I used to be normal, but then I started flying heli's....
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06-18-2009 11:36 PM  11 years ago
MMike

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Holland,Mi-USA

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Here's the reference for your servo;
http://www.servocity.com/html/hs-82mg_servo.html

Everything slides easy, right?

The GY240 is set on analog?
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06-18-2009 11:46 PM  11 years ago
toolman18

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Portland Tx

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Sounds like a binding issue. I agree with Mike.
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06-19-2009 12:25 AM  11 years ago
Gregor99

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Western Wa

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Agreed with the binding issue, or perhaps slop. I've had both issues on my HBK2 and got the wag. Sadly its one of those things, got to check everything. But you might find something unrelated that needs attention.

Not saying its your servo, but I had the plastic gear version HS-81 on my HBK2 for a long time. Tail would not hold, it would wag from time to time and bounce like crazy after a hard stop. After going through tail and addressing the binding a slop issues, much of the issues still remained. I put a 9257 and all my tail issues magically disappeared. Interesting how moving from an $18 servo to $55 servo can improve things
Revolectrix Beta Team
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06-19-2009 12:38 AM  11 years ago
MMike

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Holland,Mi-USA

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06-19-2009 12:58 AM  11 years ago
J_Cunny

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Austin, Texas

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Thanks for the inputs guys. She's got a Rex tail case and linkage is smooth in both directions. Yea, I was leaning towards servo as well. Just have to scrape up the bread for a good one. Have had good luck with 9650's and JR 3400G's (have those on my 450's with the 401). This 450 is just one I threw togther with spare parts. She's running the HDX-450 frame with Align cnc head and tail stuff. Actually getting pretty decent run times with the 3800 motor and the Dynam 30a ecs, go figure.

Thanks again,

JC
I used to be normal, but then I started flying heli's....
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06-19-2009 01:13 AM  11 years ago
Heli_KV

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Ottawa, Canada

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As Greg sayed about analog servo on small birds. Analog servo did not work good for the tail stability on HBK. I tried 3114 servo. Switched to digital - fine. Delay on gyro can help a bit to fight against tail hunting.
I see actually that even 9650 servo is not fast enough for the tail for 450. Some small, but noticable, wag exists on funnels if tail goes counter wind. If opposite direction funnel - it is fine.
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06-19-2009 01:19 AM  11 years ago
MMike

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Holland,Mi-USA

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up the bread for a good one.
$35 for the DS290 isn't TOO bad.

They say it works well on a 450.
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06-19-2009 01:35 AM  11 years ago
Heli_KV

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Ottawa, Canada

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I use this on tail for Rave: http://www.helidirect.com/inolab-hg...-500-p-8074.hdx

Very happy on 6V. A bit hot after flight. It has heat sink. Expensive though...
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06-19-2009 01:43 AM  11 years ago
TJinGuy

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Socorro, NM - USA

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Remember guys he is running a GY240, not a GY401. There is no delay and there is no digital servo switch, it is simple and basic. As for using a HS82 on the tail, well I used a HS81 on the tail with a GY240 forever and never had wag issue. No it is not the highest performance setup but it should hold the tail in a hover just fine. With a slow wag like that I would guess it is a combination of low gain and slop, either in the servo or in the tail somewhere. Nothing else would make the tail wag slowly back and forth 4-5in.- Chris

Team New Mexico
TJinTech
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06-19-2009 01:49 AM  11 years ago
Heli_KV

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Ottawa, Canada

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Ops. Right. GY240. I run GY240 and HS81MG on EP-8 - no wag. Even after hard stop. But heli is Trex500 size.
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06-19-2009 06:44 AM  11 years ago
zaw

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Lebanon, NH - USA

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A few things I learn about HH AVCS and Servo's.

When the servo is slow you have to increase the delay to get rid of the bounce, (hunting). Some time you'll be hunting for right setting. Also try different hole on the horn too. Faster servo like to be close to center and slower ones likes to be out.

To test that I just fly at 0 trim. Give it rudder(left or right) and let the stick spring back, tail will either ether keep bouncing, bounce a few time, or it will just start to drift( Do not trim the drift). Add/remove delay until it goes away. Some servo doesn't work no matter what setting you use.

Fast digital servo make a world of different. Hyperion DS11GCB is very fast servo. I use hold close to center, set to Digital and set delay at 0. Servo at 90*, set the limits so that it travel 100% on the slider and fly. Rock solid, no trimming. ( until it worn out and died )
ಠ_ಠ HBK2 built with inexpensive parts! ٩๏̯͡๏)۶ Gaui425
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06-19-2009 12:15 PM  11 years ago
blade blaster

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N.C USA

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Hi J,Didn't have time to read through all the replies,someone may have already mentioned this but a guy at the field had the same problem with his 600 rex and found the mounting tape had came loose just enough to alow the gyro to viberate at full throttle to cause a slight tail wag.
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06-23-2009 07:31 PM  11 years ago
J_Cunny

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Austin, Texas

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Thanks for the replies guys. I played around with it some more today. I repositioned the tail servo in rate mode again ( no drift either side), then switched to HH. Its still got it, but honestly, if I could get over a 100% gain, I think she'd go away as at 100% on the gain she barely does it, almost gone... So fatser servo maybe????

JC
I used to be normal, but then I started flying heli's....
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06-23-2009 07:56 PM  11 years ago
Heli_KV

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Ottawa, Canada

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Maybe increase mechanical gain? The distance between ball and servo arm center?
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06-23-2009 07:57 PM  11 years ago
J_Cunny

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Austin, Texas

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Ok will try that. using the wheel now, but have arms as well. I'll give it a shot.

Thanks,

Jc
I used to be normal, but then I started flying heli's....
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06-23-2009 08:26 PM  11 years ago
Heli_KV

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Ottawa, Canada

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Strange though. Usually when there is wag gain should be decreased or you call 'wag' when tail is soft. Well, if you say increase of gain reduces wag, worse trying. Thanks!
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06-23-2009 08:29 PM  11 years ago
Melnic

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Columbia, MD,USA

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I have a GY240 and ran it with a cheap tower pro on the tail of my HBK2 for a short while. it held fine at 50% gain. I then moved it to a 450 where I also had an analog servo at about 50% gain and it held pretty good but not awesome. I ended up pulling out later.
Although I have not run the GY240 alot, it sure seemed like it was a no fuss no muss forgiving gyro. My HBK2 at the time had serious vibes and it held pretty good I thought on the tail.
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06-23-2009 09:27 PM  11 years ago
J_Cunny

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Austin, Texas

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Yea, I tried again lower gain setings today 50 and below, and the tail was all over the place in a hover. at 90 and up she would "wiggle" periodically in a hover. She does the same thing in rate and HH. The travel is smooth, she doesn't sem to have any vibes visable. The gyro is solidly mounted with the tape, upside down (do that with all my 450's). It's just stange. I had this on the HBK with a 3114 on the tail and never had an issue. I may just swap out the servo with the 3114 that I have, just to try it out. I don't think it has the "guts" to be on a 450, but it might be wirth a try. Just swaped out the wheel with a horn and the ball is out further now, so I need to try it again and see.

JC
I used to be normal, but then I started flying heli's....
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06-23-2009 10:00 PM  11 years ago
DougsRC

rrProfessor

Mass.

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Its just waving to you JC It likes you
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