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Home✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterThunder TigerRAPTOR 30 › Won't hover?
06-18-2009 09:04 AM  11 years ago
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Rogerm069

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New Albany, PA USA

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Won't hover?
A friend has a R30 and he is new to helis but has been flying nitro planks for awhile, when he first starts it it will hover just fine then as it warms up it floats back down and wont take off. Sounds like the engine is loosing RPM's, but no matter which way he turns the needle it makes no difference? Now if he shuts it down to idle and lets it spool down and back up it will take off but only for a few seconds. He has his pitch curve at +3,+5,+9
any ideas?
Thanks
Growing old is mandatory, growing up is optional
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06-18-2009 11:09 AM  11 years ago
l0n3i200n

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South Africa

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Sounds like overheating problems. Don't run the motor constantly like you are you will damage the piston and ring.

Try this. ( I'm not sure if you have an OS motor or TT motor )
So options would be TT36/39H or OS32/37H.

Hopefully he doesn't have a plank motor in the heli

Anyway tuning on heli's is the same as most nitro motors.
1. Start of with your TX at trim at the lowest point. It should close the carb on the motor completely. ( Will make throttle-cut easier when you set it later )

2. After confirming step 1, move the throttle trim up say to range 15-25%(idle).

3. Disconnect the fuel hose to muffler and fuel hose form tank to carb. Connect a piece of fuel tubing to the carb nipple and start blowing into it, you should hear air flowing thru your carb. ( SHOULD NOW NOT BE BLOCKED / CARB SHOULD NOT BE CLOSED ). You want the air to flow.

4. If you don't get air flowing on you (15-20%) range adjust the low speed needle (OS - it's the nut and on TT, it's inside the throttle arm - the little screw). Adjust it anti-clockwise (Unscrew or richen the mixture on low speed,till you hear air constant with blowing into the tubing).

5. Turn in the High speed needle, say 2 to 2.5 turn from closed. Should be overkill but rather be save and not damage the motor.

6. Tighten all the fuel hoses to the carb and muffler and start her up.

7. Listern to your RPM should be constant/Linear to your movement on your TX throttle - if you push it up - so should the RPM climb.

8. Adjust only the high speed needle for now. Chances are it so rich it will bearly hover, turn the HSN (High Speed Needle - Big Screw) clock wise,one or 2 click at a time. Hover and Land untill you can hover comfortably without overheating the engine.

9. Tip is to check the engine backplate, BEWARNED IT CAN GET VERY HOT.
Wet your finger, touch it. If you can hold your finger on it for say 3 counts it should be fine operating tempriture.

cheers
Geez, sorry for the lengthy post,didn't think I'd say so much
l0n3i200n
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06-18-2009 12:01 PM  11 years ago
Rogerm069

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New Albany, PA USA

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Thanks, I will pass this info to him today and let him work it out based on your info. By the way it is a heli motor, its a OS32 I know as I sold it all to him.Growing old is mandatory, growing up is optional
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06-18-2009 03:05 PM  11 years ago
JuanRodriguez

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The Villages, Florida

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And once the motor is tuned "properly" , he should be adjusting the pitch and throttle curves to make the heli fly as it should vs "tweaking" the needles to accomplish the same thing....
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06-18-2009 03:15 PM  11 years ago
Rogerm069

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New Albany, PA USA

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What? heating up isnt controlled by the curves? and the pitch curves are how they should be as I dont want a newbee slamming it off the throttle and doing a boom strike, now it floats down perfectly.Growing old is mandatory, growing up is optional
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06-18-2009 03:23 PM  11 years ago
JuanRodriguez

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What? heating up isnt controlled by the curves?
I'm not really sure if you're joking or not but if you're not then NO !! The motor being "lean or rich" has nothing to do with the curves except that if you overpitch the helicopter, it can overheat a properly tuned engine. You've stated that the pitch is set up "soft", so that's probably not the issue.....

You need to properly tune the motor FIRST , followed by fine tuning your curves....
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06-18-2009 04:54 PM  11 years ago
Rogerm069

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Gotcha now thanks.Growing old is mandatory, growing up is optional
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06-19-2009 06:19 AM  11 years ago
l0n3i200n

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South Africa

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"He has his pitch curve at +3,+5,+9" this should be ok for the 0S32, since he is still hovering he won't over pitch the blades. Raptors hover on 5.5 - 6deg's. This OS 32 is more than cable of handling the hover. Get you settings correct first.

Have a look at http://www.raptortechnique.com. Very good Raptor info
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06-19-2009 06:27 AM  11 years ago
alvinrc

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Mobile, AL, USA

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Could be a fuel delivery problem.

Check all fuel lines, especially in tank/s, for holes, splits, deterioration, undue softness.

Back flush any fuel filters and check them for leaks.

Check that muffler pressure nipple is clear.

Remove main engine needle valve and pump some fuel through nipple to blow any debris out of needle assembly.
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06-19-2009 05:23 PM  11 years ago
jschenck

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La Vista, NE.

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+1 on the fuel lines - especially inside the tank. Change all the fuel lines out.
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06-19-2009 10:33 PM  11 years ago
Rogerm069

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New Albany, PA USA

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Thanks guys, will pass all of this along to himGrowing old is mandatory, growing up is optional
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06-20-2009 04:04 PM  11 years ago
Rogerm069

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New Albany, PA USA

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Well guys, he did the adjustments just as you explained, he replaced all his tubing for the fuel and when it warms up the RPM's slow down, he tried going both ways a click or 2 at a time and nothing. He did put his finger on the backplate and it was too hot to keep it on there for even a second.
If the ring is wornout would it do this? he reports it smokes a awful lot even when he turns it in?
I gave him another OS-32 engine to try, so we shall see.
Growing old is mandatory, growing up is optional
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06-22-2009 06:38 AM  11 years ago
l0n3i200n

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South Africa

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"He did put his finger on the backplate and it was too hot to keep it on there for even a second." - This is bad, it means the motor is really running lean of something is hindering the optimal operation of the motor. Did you replace the clutch recently. Check if there's a washer between the fan and clutch. There should not be any washer, this will press the clutch against the clutchbell. - Check it by spinning the motor with the starter using the wand, hold the blades, it the blades engage the clutch is stuck. Then only remove the clutch to check.

Open up the motor, it would be you best bet to check for any internal damage or obstruction. Also flush out the carbs with a steady blow and some fuel.

"he reports it smokes a awful lot even when he turns it in?" - Smoke is good, depending on the kind of fuel. I use morgan LV 15% and a constant stream of smoke is very much wanted here.
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06-22-2009 09:48 AM  11 years ago
Rogerm069

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New Albany, PA USA

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The clutch is okay and spins free no washer, it smokes and he is using cool power 15%. All is clean all flushed no obstuctions lines replaced, all is clear. He has reported some scratches on the piston wall, and I am thinking the ring is worn out and at the minnimum and needs replaced. Like I stated above I gave him a new 32 to try so we shall see what he reports,Growing old is mandatory, growing up is optional
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07-07-2009 09:17 PM  11 years ago
Rogerm069

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New Albany, PA USA

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He installed the new 32 engine and had no problems, so that was it just a worn engine.
Thanks to all!
Growing old is mandatory, growing up is optional
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07-08-2009 06:26 AM  11 years ago
l0n3i200n

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South Africa

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Take the old engine apart. Replace the damaged or warn parts and she will be as good as new. These motors can take a beating. Also it's nice to have a spare motor for just incase.
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07-08-2009 07:48 AM  11 years ago
Rogerm069

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New Albany, PA USA

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Yes he is ordering bearings and a ring today, the OS 32 never dies ir just gets better.Growing old is mandatory, growing up is optional
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