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Home✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterHIROBOOther › So what do all those holes on my FZ-5, SZ-5, or SSZ-IV/V's mixers adjust????
06-17-2009 07:32 PM  11 years ago
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Dr.Ben

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Richmond, VA, USA

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So what do all those holes on my FZ-5, SZ-5, or SSZ-IV/V's mixers adjust????
Hi guys,

Over the past months I've received quite a few PM's from folks who are wondering about head set up and what the mixers and so forth on our rotor heads adjust. This is espcecially true with the new SSZ-IV/V heads and the new FZ-5 (SDX) head because Hirobo provides a great baseline set up but little additional insight on what can be tweaked to accomplish a given goal. So.........I'm going to try to review a little of that stuff here.

First, let's consider the holes on the flybar carrier. The closer you mount the ball to the center of the flybar carrier, the lower the bell hiller ratio. The model becomes more responsive and less stable in the wind with the ball mounted to the hole(s) closer to the center of the carrier. On the IV/V and SDX heads, you should undertstand that this is one way to adjust the flybar authority WITHOUT affecting collective or cyclic range. This point is important to understand because the design of these heads generally makes you trade off maximum stability for maximum collective and cyclic pitch range.

Now, the bell mixers.....They have a bunch of holes in them. On the side of the mixer whose pushrod goes down to the swashplate, the further you go OUT (IOW mount the ball)on that mixer from its center pivot, the lower the collective and pitch range. In doing so, you'll also be increasing your bell hiller ratio and flybar authority. The opposite conditions will all hold true the closer you mount the ball to the mixer's center pivot. Now, let's jump to the other side of the mixer. On this side, the further OUT from the center pivot you mount that ball and link that go down to the flybar carrier, the lower the bell hiller ratio and flybar authority and you'll add to the collective and cyclic ranges. Conversely, if you go IN on this same side of the mixer, you'll accomplish the opposite effect. Again, these rotor heads lose collective and cyclic pitch range the higher you drive the flybar authority when the balls are moved about on the mixers.

So, how the !@#$ do you figure out what settings to use? First, if you fly more of a contest style set up, The first thing I want you to do is flip the mixer around 180D so the pivot bolt goes through the opposite side of the mixer. Either remove the little standoff that goes through the bearings and put it in from the other side or put a thin shim washer between the mixer and the pitch arm. When you flip the mixer this way, it places the long arm of the mixer on the side going to the swashplate, which better optimizes your choices for stability. Oriented this way, the ball on the side of the mixer going down to the swash will go on the INSIDE of the mixer, and the ball on the flybar carrier side of the mixer wil go ont he OUTSIDE of the mixer. Here's a pic: http://www.runryder.com/rrpw.htm?p=4295025&i=26 (thanks Bob). You'll go all the way out on the swashplate side of the mixer and one hole out from all the way in on the carrier side of the mixer. Set up this way maximizes stabilty in the wind while preserving enough collective and cyclic range. You can't go all the way in on the carrier side of the mixer because you'll lose too much collective and cyclic range. As for the ball on the flybar carrier, you'll choose the hole either furthest out from the center or the intermediate option. Fine tweaking these mixing ratios for optimum stability in the wind is a topic for another dissertation.

For those who fly 3D, the knee jerk reaction might be to max out the ball positions for the ultimate in collective and cyclic range. NOT!
The reason you don't want to do this is 1)You'll end up with so much collective you'll have to electronically compress the travel and thus torpedo resolution 2)Your cyclic travel may end up the same way making the model ridiculously touchy to fly, and thus you'll need to compress throw again 3)You make the model so unstable with little flybar authority that it no longer tracks through manuevers or a little puff of wind blows it all over the place. So..........the best thing to do is start with the suggested settings and fly the model. First, do you have the collective and cyclic range you desire without doing a bunch of funny business in the radio? Remember that with an eCCPM model, you'll want to try to keep the swash AFR's somewhere inthe 40-60's % range to preserve resolution and minimize control interaction. If the head set up is forcing you to really skew the radio numbers one way or the other, then move the balls around on the head to change the geometry and manipulate the collective and pitch range in whatever direction you need. A bit of philosophy here: I know the likes of Bobby Watts, Dominik, Nick Maxwell, etc. may fly a really hot set up. This fact does NOT mean you have to fly your model this way. YOU need to figure out exactly how much control range and authority you need for the kind of manuevers the YOU are doing. If need all the range and authority the head can provide for your style of flying, then that's just fine. BUT, if you're dialing the head back in the radio and otherwise feel as though you have a ball on the end of a needle in flight, then trade back some of the excess control for some flybar authority. The beauty of these new Hirobo heads is that they will pretty much do ANYTHING you want them do simply by moving the balls around in an informed manner and then playing with blades, paddles, and flybars. Thus please do yourself the favor of taking the time to adjust YOUR head to the way YOU want it fly. Your model will fly a lot better for your efforts.

FWIW,

Ben Minor

Revision #1 4:30p EDT 6/17
Revision #2 2:15P EDT 6/18
Peak Aircraft/Team Minicopter Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA
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06-17-2009 07:42 PM  11 years ago
TMoore

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Cookeville, TN

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Nice write up Ben, very informative and to the point.

TM
Part 107.
The only ZERO flight hour certificate in the world.
It's like getting a driver's license without the driver's test.
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06-17-2009 07:53 PM  11 years ago
Andy from Sandy

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UK

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Thank you.
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06-17-2009 08:40 PM  11 years ago
flyboy0413

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Brookfield, CT

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Awesome writeup. Very informative.
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06-17-2009 08:43 PM  11 years ago
RappyTappy

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Encinitas, CA

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When I saw the question and then saw the poster Dr.Ben, I was like whhaa for a moment! lol Nice post Dr.Ben, as usual. Still buyin' and flyin' then crashing and cryin'
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06-17-2009 09:02 PM  11 years ago
shahar_lz

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Israel

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"On the side of the mixer whose pushrod goes down to the swashplate, the further you go OUT (IOW mount the ball)on that mixer from its center pivot, the greater the collective and pitch range"
correct me if I am wrong but it should be the opposite

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06-17-2009 09:15 PM  11 years ago
BarracudaHockey

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Jacksonville FL

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Excellent info Ben!Andy
AMA 77227
http://www.jaxrc.com
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06-17-2009 09:23 PM  11 years ago
Dr.Ben

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Richmond, VA, USA

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Shahar,

You're CORRECT RE the sentence on the long side of the bell mixer.

I typoed that in spite of four proofreads.

All fixed now.

Thanks so much for the pickup.

Ben
Peak Aircraft/Team Minicopter Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA
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06-17-2009 09:28 PM  11 years ago
AzHyper

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Peoria, Az.

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Excellent job Ben. Not to stray from Hirobo, but I've found the pictures and explanations here to be a great resource as well.

http://www.carbonxtreme.com/Product...tart_Manual.pdf
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06-18-2009 03:42 AM  11 years ago
Piyaphan1

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Bangkok, Thailand

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thank you Dr.BenPiyaphan
TurbulenceD3 YS-SR3C / TurbulenceD3 YS-SR3C-RR / Lepton
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06-18-2009 03:44 PM  11 years ago
Dr.Ben

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Richmond, VA, USA

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My pleasure guys.

Ben
Peak Aircraft/Team Minicopter Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA
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06-18-2009 04:35 PM  11 years ago
synodontis

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United Kingdom

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I too have to acknowledge my gratitude to Dr Ben for some of his insightful and illuminating posts. Haven't got round to playing with the SSZ-IV/V heads yet.

You don't sort out ichthyological matters as well do you (just kidding...)?
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06-18-2009 04:46 PM  11 years ago
2kwik2c

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Chino Hills, USA

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That's Dr. Ben for you. Don't you know he carries a Hirobo PhD degree?!
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06-18-2009 07:12 PM  11 years ago
rudyy

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E. Amherst, NY

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Dr. Ben. You are our Hirobo knowledge database.
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06-18-2009 10:41 PM  11 years ago
rexxigpilot

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Well, I just got done tuning the paddles to my liking - no weights. It is a bit twitchy on cyclic in hover this way. I guess I will be adjusting the lever positions soon. Thanks for the info Dr. Ben!
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06-19-2009 02:12 PM  11 years ago
shahar_lz

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Israel

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well, after flying with the setup as the manual, the SDX fly good but not as good as I wanted. it didn't have anough cyclic and needed alot of trim when flying in the wind.

so I changed the basic settings and moved the ball links on the bell mixers to the middle hole on both sides. that gave me more collective (so I comppresed the travel of the swashplate) and more cyclic (instaded of 5.5 deg it bacame 6.5 - 7 deg).

my first thought was that if I change the link on the right side of the bell mixers (the one that goes to the flybar carrier) it would affect the way the heli reacts to the wind.

yestarday I went to the flying field and took the heli up to the air. it was a windy day but the heli (as I thought) was less sensetive to the wind and needed almost no trim to keep it in place on all directions (nose in, tail in, sides in).
the heli also felt more alive in the air and performed better 3D.

I think you should all consider changing your basic settings and find out if you like it better.

good luck all.

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06-20-2009 11:56 AM  11 years ago
Lewd Skywalker

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Manila, Philippines

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Thank you Dr. Ben, this is one post I'm waiting for here in RR. I have the SDX and 3 helis with SSZ3 heads and have done only the basic/as per manual settings. This is a good guide for me during my experiments Thanks again.SDX FBL | Eagle3 SWM | Trex 600EFL Pro
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06-20-2009 07:04 PM  11 years ago
John Benario

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Las Vegas

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Ben is great writer as usual, but I want to clarify one thing. He wrote in the second paragraph:

"This point is important to understand because the design of these heads generally makes you trade off maximum stability for maximum collective and cyclic pitch range."

I think what he meant was that most OTHER heads make you trade off stability for throw, i.e. Align, Thunder Tiger, previous Hirobo; however, the SSZ-4/5 and SDX head allow you to increase stability without decreasing throw, that is one of the reasons these are such a great heads.

Note: this is not a slam at Miniature or Century. The "X-Cell" style head has always had the advantage that individual parameters (Hiller, Bell, collective) can be changed without an unwanted change to another parameter. The difference with these Hirobo heads is you get the adjustability given to you in the form of all the holes, rather than having to find other parts or machine spacers or otherwise cobble together your mod.

John Benario

PS, another ad for Ben. For new pilots to the Futaba 12Z/14MZ (which encompasses all pilots eventually!) Ben wrote a great description of how to use the 27(? I think) CCPM interaction controls in the FAQ section of the 14MZ website. For pilots of the "other" brand who have not experienced CCPM with all the interaction gone, the improvement in how the helicopter flies is tremendous.
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06-21-2009 01:43 AM  11 years ago
rexxigpilot

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John, are you sure Ben was wrong? Agility is sacrificed for stability and vice versa. What the new FZ-5 head does is give one the ability to fine tune between agility and stability to suit one's own taste by changing the amount of flybar input.
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06-21-2009 02:06 AM  11 years ago
Quickster

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Victoria, Australia

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So What would be the best settings for good stability and 3D response?
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Home✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterHIROBOOther › So what do all those holes on my FZ-5, SZ-5, or SSZ-IV/V's mixers adjust????
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