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HomeRC & Power✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterFlybarless Rotor Head SystemsOther › radix 600mmSB or STD for flybarless?
06-17-2009 10:54 AM  11 years ago
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helirulz

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Singapore

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radix 600mmSB or STD for flybarless?
Hi guys, i've currently got a set of radix SB with me at the moment. Was wondering if this or the standard radix 600mm blades is better for a flybarless machine?
I saw that Kyle Dahl was using the standard radix during the XFC and his flight was awesome but I'm not sure if that's any indication if the STDs are better over the SBs.
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06-17-2009 03:34 PM  11 years ago
Jag72

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South of Boston

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blades and Flybarless
Typically people like to use blades that are a bit on the heavier side for flybarless...too light of blades are a bit twitchy and less predictable and stable than a heavier blade...

That's also why you rarely see people flying vblades on flybarless....because they are so light..

too stiff a blade on flybarless is not good either...a blade that has a bit of flex to it seems to fly better also..

I personally think the Gohbee's or SWE's fly the best for me...but the Standard Radix fly very well also ...alot of guys like them ...
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06-17-2009 03:37 PM  11 years ago
Ronald Thomas

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Gainesville, Fl, USA

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I agree but the Logo 600 VBAR I bought came with VBlades TSTs so I had to turn on the optimizer for 4.0. It seems to work well but if I dork it, I will go back to the Gohbees.........RonTeam MikadoUSA 480XXTreme, 550SX, 600SX, 700XXTreme, 800XXTreme!!
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06-17-2009 04:00 PM  11 years ago
Eco8gator

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Palm Beach, FL

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A simple answer is blade energy. Most 600 sized blades will fly very nice with a good gyro syste but you can't make up for inertia.

VBlades work nice too as long as the head isn't so rigid...the mikado head is a good head for these blades.

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06-17-2009 04:23 PM  11 years ago
helirulz

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Singapore

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Ahh...ok I've got a friend who's willing to do a trade with me for the standard radix 600mm blades.

Btw, since you guys mentioned it...what does the main rotor and tail rotor optimizer do?
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06-17-2009 04:32 PM  11 years ago
tchavei

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Portugal

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I wouldn't trade my Sbs. Try the standart ones out before you make the swap. Flybarless is cool and has some advantages but it won't give 30% more power to swing what ever you want. If your collective management isn't good, you will bog the std radix in heavy ail tic tocs. No problem with the Sbs.

Tony

--------------------
"Perfection and patience usually walk side by side..."
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06-17-2009 05:46 PM  11 years ago
Ben-T-Spindle

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Central Illinois

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Heavier blades do fly batter with flybarless. If you already have blades give them a try. The big problem with lightweight blades is autorotations. Flybarless helicopters are much harder to autorotate and you run out of energy faster. There is another thread that discusses the problem in more detail.

... BTS
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06-17-2009 05:48 PM  11 years ago
Jag72

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South of Boston

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Optimizer on 4.0
The optimizer reads your inputs and automatically adjusts the "Agility" of aileron and elevator to more closely match your flying style....it is good and bad...if you fly 3 or 4 mild flights it will cut the agility down...whichmakes it more stable and predictable...BUT..if you try to stick bang the cyclic speed will not be there..

I have been running the optimizer on my trex 500 for a while now and while I like it overall I didn't like it reducing my Aileron agility
I don't do a lot of aggressive flying with the aileron so it keeps reducing my ail agility...but when I do try to get aggressive it's slow...so I decided to just disable it
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06-17-2009 06:08 PM  11 years ago
tchavei

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Portugal

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Jag72: Yes however on light blades, the opposite is true. For example my agility is set to 42. If I fly moderately, the agility will move to maybe 41 on ail and 40 on ele. However, if I trash the machine around like bats from hell, the optimizer will come up with 38 ail and 34 ele. Basically what the optimizer does is adjust the control loop to the blade responsiveness so that in the end, all blades fly more or less equal.

Autorotations are tricky with light blades and especially with flybarless but I do acrobatic autos (inverted with ending flip) with my radixs sbs... are they easy to do... no (I still have the occasional cold shiver). Are they possible? yes they are. Normal autos work good. Obviously not as good as std radix or 620mm red devils but you can bring down the bird safely even downwind.

Tony
PS - If you really want a challenge, get the 600mm red devils with 120gr... I consider myself proficient at autos but the only way to auto those down is doing an F16 style approach and slide down the runway. Flaring is out of the question.

Tony

--------------------
"Perfection and patience usually walk side by side..."
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06-18-2009 02:36 AM  11 years ago
helirulz

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Singapore

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Wow thanks for all the info guys! Keep it coming!

Jag72,
wow i didn't know the vbar was that smart. Cant wait to try mine out but unfortunately my LHS only has the RJX FBL head next week

A few questions though...
1) I presume you use the tail rotor optimizer like how you would on the main rotor?

2)Am i supposed to disable the optimizer on both MR and TR during the autotrim flight?
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06-18-2009 12:03 PM  11 years ago
MrMel

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Gotland

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PS - If you really want a challenge, get the 600mm red devils with 120gr... I consider myself proficient at autos but the only way to auto those down is doing an F16 style approach and slide down the runway. Flaring is out of the question.
Yours 120 grams??? Mine was 128-130 gram.
Gone fishing..or hunting..or something
My site: http://heli.dacsa.net - VBar videos and more
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06-18-2009 01:06 PM  11 years ago
tchavei

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Portugal

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???

Yes, mine are 120gr. I checked. My Radix Sbs are 129gr and my SAB Red Devils 620mm are 124gr and my SAB 620mm standard are 132gr. My standard Radix are 143gr.

Tony

--------------------
"Perfection and patience usually walk side by side..."
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06-18-2009 01:27 PM  11 years ago
MrMel

rrProfessor

Gotland

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Strange, I have two sets here 130 grams on the box on both, measured them and they weigh in at 131 on my scale so 130 is probably exactly right...

This is 600mm Sab Red Devils, think part# 330
Gone fishing..or hunting..or something
My site: http://heli.dacsa.net - VBar videos and more
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06-18-2009 02:06 PM  11 years ago
tchavei

rrProfessor

Portugal

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my box says 120gr on it and I checked and its 120.

I was told that SAB had large variations between blade sets but 10gr is a lot in my opinion.

Tony

--------------------
"Perfection and patience usually walk side by side..."
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06-18-2009 02:08 PM  11 years ago
MrMel

rrProfessor

Gotland

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No kidding, thats almost 10% Gone fishing..or hunting..or something
My site: http://heli.dacsa.net - VBar videos and more
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06-18-2009 02:14 PM  11 years ago
tchavei

rrProfessor

Portugal

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Hum... let me call a friend that bought a pair of 620mm RD last week.

BRB

TOny

--------------------
"Perfection and patience usually walk side by side..."
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06-18-2009 02:17 PM  11 years ago
tchavei

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Portugal

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Back.

His pair of 620mm is 125gr. Your set must be off. Our 620mm sets are 124-125gr and 600mm are 120gr which makes sense (they are shorter) so I don't get how yours have 130gr

Are they Red Devils? My stock SAB 620mm are 132gr which makes sense if yours are stock 600mm but not RD

Tony

--------------------
"Perfection and patience usually walk side by side..."
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06-18-2009 02:18 PM  11 years ago
MrMel

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Gotland

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got several sets and they are red devils, at 130 grams

Oh well, different batch I guess.
Gone fishing..or hunting..or something
My site: http://heli.dacsa.net - VBar videos and more
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06-18-2009 02:21 PM  11 years ago
tchavei

rrProfessor

Portugal

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Different batch sure but 10gr per blade is still a lot. Now I'm thinking that if I managed to bog my YS50 on 8.7 ratio with 620mm blades (124gr) then with +130gr it would have been what? A blade stall?

Tony

--------------------
"Perfection and patience usually walk side by side..."
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06-18-2009 02:29 PM  11 years ago
MrMel

rrProfessor

Gotland

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Nothing compared to maniacs at 140+ grams

most vendors list RD 600 blades as 135gram and 620 as 140...

I got a few more sets inbound, will see what they weigh in at
Gone fishing..or hunting..or something
My site: http://heli.dacsa.net - VBar videos and more
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