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HomeAircraftHelicopterEngines Plugs Mufflers Fuel › OS 50 Hyper Problem
06-06-2009 01:13 PM  9 years agoPost 1
maveric4

rrVeteran

england

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Ok Have a new 50 hyper that I am breaking in.

Managed to get it started for the first start and run with main needle set at two turns open. It would not hover very well because this seemed extreamly rich so had to bring the main needle in to 1 and three quarter turns open to get it to hover to finish the tank.

Second start went ok at that setting but was so rich that the trex 600 appeared to wobble simulating an out of balanced head. I ended up coming in on the main needle to just over one turn open for things to smooth out.
I am a bit worried that this is not rich enough to break in a new engine.
Can you please post your comments on what needle setting I should have for the break in and for what period and also what needle setting I will probably end up with on the main needle running bekra 10 fuel and an os number 8 plug.

Even at one turn open the tank is emptying real fast.
I have a raptor 50 with the TT pro 50 in it and that will last at least three times longer.

Coments please

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06-06-2009 01:38 PM  9 years agoPost 2
BarracudaHockey

rrMaster

Jacksonville FL

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If its sucking the tank dry it's running rich, where the needle ends up is completely dependent on the fuel, muffler and weather. Lean it till it starts to smooth out, keep an eye that the back plate is warm but not hot, it will start to run cooler for a given needle setting, thats when you lean it more as the ring is seating.

Andy
AMA 77227
http://www.jaxrc.com

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06-06-2009 04:53 PM  9 years agoPost 3
maveric4

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england

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I am running 10 per cent fuel with os number 8 plug and the aligh muffler.
How many tanks will I need to put through it to consider it run in.
When run in what is my main needle setting likely to be.
Where should it be for the run in process.

After two tanks of fuel My starter will barely turn the engine over now. Would really appreciate some advice.

Cheers

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06-06-2009 05:01 PM  9 years agoPost 4
max232

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Pensacola

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These engines dont need much break in time at all, a couple tanks will be fine,as it states in the manual.

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06-06-2009 05:30 PM  9 years agoPost 5
helibro

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hamilton, ohio

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i started out using 15% and it ran good but moved up to 30% and it is real nice i am not sure but might want to try diff fuel?

hey! were is the reset button!

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06-06-2009 05:53 PM  9 years agoPost 6
dkshema

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Cedar Rapids, IA

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With 10% fuel, you'll end up with your needle quite a bit leaner than someone who's burning 30% and even 15%. Lower nitro percentages mean leaner needles. Higher percentages end up being richer.

Don't try to do everything with the main needle. Tweak the low speed adjustment, too, especially to get a good transition from idle up to hovering. Use THROTTLE TRIM to maintain idle during the initial adjustments.

No, two tanks really won't allow you to break in the motor. Don't rush the break-in period unless you like buying pistons, rings, and cylinders and starting all over again.

Run at least a gallon through it, starting out rich, then leaning out a few clicks with each successive tank. Eventually, you'll reach the point where you can nail full collective and the heli will just go up without the motor sagging, or RPM falling off as you do.

The low-speed adjustment, by the way is a CAM -- and it's only good for a 1/4 turn either way from the factory setting. It doesn't screw in and out like a normal needle.

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

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06-06-2009 07:03 PM  9 years agoPost 7
maveric4

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england

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Thank you dkshema,

For that informative reply.

So I can assume that running 10% I will have a leaner main needle and poosibly idle needle as well.

Will it really matter if my main needle is only 1 turn open when I have finished running the first gallon through it. Even at 1 turn open it sucks fuel like you would not believe.

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06-06-2009 09:00 PM  9 years agoPost 8
BarracudaHockey

rrMaster

Jacksonville FL

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As long as its not running hot it doesn't matter and yes, 10 percent nitro will require a leaner needle.

Andy
AMA 77227
http://www.jaxrc.com

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06-07-2009 12:52 AM  9 years agoPost 9
Yug

rrMaster

UK. Herts

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These engines dont need much break in time at all, a couple tanks will be fine,as it states in the manual.
Not true. Start with a rich setting of perhaps 2 1/2 turns, then move needle in 2 or 3 clicks on each successive flight. After a gallon, your needle should be somewhere around 1.25 turns (10%) and you should feel some comfortable temperature on the backplate. The next half gallon is fine tuning as the engine comes into song.

Vegetable rights and Peace

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06-07-2009 03:46 AM  9 years agoPost 10
max232

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Pensacola

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I have run several engines with 2 tanks break in, and have several gallons without problems,this is like a ford chevy debate,will never end. do a search on 2 stroke break-in and you will see a lot of opinions on it. i used to race 2 stroke go carts(expensive hobby)sent every new engine to a builder to blueprint, he would tell me to run it hard right out of the box.

from the os manual
All internal-combustion engines benefit, to some
degree, from extra care when they are run for the first
few times known as running-in or breaking-in.
This is allows the working parts to mate together
under load at operating temperature.
However, because O.S. engines are made with the
aid of the finest modern precision machinely and from
the best and most suitable materrials, only a very
short and simple running-in procedure is required and
can be carried out with the engine installed in the
modle. For the first few flights with a new engine i.e.
while the engine is being run-in set the needle-valve
for a slightly rich mixture not excessively rich as this
may result in poor throttle response and cause the
engine to stope. About 1.5 turn open from the nomal
setting will usually suffice.

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06-07-2009 05:27 AM  9 years agoPost 11
dkshema

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Cedar Rapids, IA

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Not a Ford vs Chevy debate.

You stated:
These engines dont need much break in time at all, a couple tanks will be fine,as it states in the manual.
The OS manual that you point to as your Bible, says:
All internal-combustion engines benefit, to some degree, from extra care when they are run for the first few times known as running-in or breaking-in.
and
For the first few flights with a new engine i.e. while the engine is being run-in set the needle-valve for a slightly rich mixture not excessively rich as this may result in poor throttle response and cause the engine to stop.
OS says "first few flights". You say "a couple of tanks". Couple of tanks means TWO tanks. First few means FIRST FEW (not TWO), as a matter of fact, it implies more than two.

-----

It's really nice to hear that you run Go Karts. It's an interesting bit about your background and other interests, but means nothing when tuning a model helicopter engine.

You rarely run your Go Kart motor at near full throttle and constant RPM, under essentially a full operational load for an entire tank of fuel as is the norm in an RC helicopter. I would guess that your Kart motor isn't turning somewhere between 17,000 and 20,000 RPM, no matter WHAT it's doing.

You don't suffer from the limited cooling afforded by the configuration of the cooling system of the average helicopter.

You're running a gasoline/oil mixture, not a mixture of nitromethane, methanol, and some percentage of lubricant, be it castor, synthetic, or a blend.

You got your motor from a custom builder who told you to run it hard right out of the box. How long did that motor last? And would you do the same to a mass-produced production model of that same motor?

Operating tolerances (in spite of the Marketing PR message in the OS manual) in these little two-strokes are much different than in your Kart motor. There is not a lot of room for error. Too lean, too fast, you may purchase a new motor.

-----

It's also interesting to note that your resume says "you have run several engines over several gallons" with your two-tank break-in ritual.

Kind of vague -- several, and several. It doesn't sound as if you really have a lot of background OR time flying model helicopters.

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

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06-07-2009 05:51 AM  9 years agoPost 12
max232

rrVeteran

Pensacola

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you do what works for you, i'll do what works for me buddy.

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06-07-2009 06:19 AM  9 years agoPost 13
max232

rrVeteran

Pensacola

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You rarely run your Go Kart motor at near full throttle and constant RPM, under essentially a full operational load for an entire tank of fuel as is the norm in an RC helicopter. I would guess that your Kart motor isn't turning somewhere between 17,000 and 20,000 RPM, no matter WHAT it's doing.
Why would you just assume that i dont know what i'm talking about.fyi
my go kart engines ran at over 15k rpms on a oval track almost flat-footed for the whole race at temps of 300+ . also ran nitro. quit jumping to conclusions.

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06-07-2009 07:48 AM  9 years agoPost 14
rexxigpilot

rrProfessor

Florida

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max232 is fairly correct here guys! We run ringed engines. It doesn't take much to lap in the ring to cylinder wall fit. Now, if we used non-ringed engines a thorough break-in would take much more than 2 tanks.

See max232, if only you said 3 tanks then you would have been absolutely correct and dkshema wouldn't be all over your a$$. At one time a few meant more than 2 but less than or equal to 5. Modern denotations state that a few means some but a small amount, or more than one.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/few[2]
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/few

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07-10-2009 07:55 AM  9 years agoPost 15
soneebee

rrNovice

Philippines

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on a rebuild engine do I still have to do all the breakin procedure as if its was new? I just replaced the piston, piston ring, liner and bearings.. will it have to be 5 tanks again.. or can It be just 3. I ran it already 4 tanks.. and the power is back.. but the engine is still tight...

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07-10-2009 09:32 AM  9 years agoPost 16
Yug

rrMaster

UK. Herts

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Needs running in to allow new parts to mate up. Same situation as with a new engine.

Vegetable rights and Peace

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07-11-2009 03:14 AM  9 years agoPost 17
rapy jack

rrNovice

phelan ca, usa

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breaking in
just broke mine in the directions say 2 turn out for a starting point for breakin. so i did 2&1-2 and the temp was 100deg. the next tank 2 turns and went 150deg. 1 gal later and now im at 190deg 1&1-2or more
rtf

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