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HomeAircraftHelicopterMain Discussion › Advice on pirouette
06-05-2009 08:47 AM  9 years agoPost 1
HawkProPilot

rrApprentice

Norfolk, Va.

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I need help on pirouetting. I have seen videos of guys doing them and it looks as if something is holding their heli in place while it is spinning. I can not get that same thing to happen on the Sim or in real life. I have been working on it for weeks now and can not seem to get the feel for it. Any advice?

I need to get a second job just to buy parts.

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06-05-2009 08:50 AM  9 years agoPost 2
duceduc

rrKey Veteran

Saitama-Ken, Japan

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Tell me where you fly and I will come buddy box you.

Duc S
Do It! Do It!™
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RCK:24005615-01

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06-05-2009 09:05 AM  9 years agoPost 3
JAGNZ

rrProfessor

Auckland, New Zealand

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I find that for smooth pirouetting maneuvers you have to be VERY gentle on the Cyclics. If you get over aggresive with it it turns ugly real quick.

I am no expert at it but I find that using Cyclic for slight directional changes is best and then just let the heli groove whilst piro'ing. Think of it like this. Imagine cruising along right to left in front of yourself straight and level. Now just start Pirouetting without touching the Cyclics. The heli will stay reasonably straight and level with almost 0 Cyclics.

When my Pirouetting looks bad it's because I am over-controlling plain and simple.

There are other tips too like matching the Cyclic Stir speed to Pirouette Rate etc. but I find this to be the most important thing....


Jason Greenwood

www.3dheli.co.nz

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06-05-2009 09:32 AM  9 years agoPost 4
JetFire

rrKey Veteran

The Golden STATE

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Decide on the correction points. Idealy, it would be either tail-in or nose-in. For starters, piro slow in a hover and make small stick adjustments once you reach the correction point. Typicaly, the slower the piro the more correction points. One is effective enough on anything faster because its to fast to react to IMO.

Hope that helped


Trex700N Pro
DX8-2.4
Spartan/BL9088

-The ONLY way you fail is when you quit.-

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06-05-2009 09:36 AM  9 years agoPost 5
JAGNZ

rrProfessor

Auckland, New Zealand

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Decide on the correction points. Idealy, it would be either tail-in or nose-in. For starters, piro slow in a hover and make small stick adjustments once you reach the correction point. Typicaly, the slower the piro the more correction points. One will suffice on anything faster because its to fast otherwise IMO.
Yes, very good point. They are like the 'key' points in a maneuver. Those are the places you begin and end a maneuver and points at which you can correct the Helis attitude. This is true of ALL maneuvers. If you use consistent correction points it becomes more automatic.


Jason Greenwood

www.3dheli.co.nz

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06-05-2009 09:46 AM  9 years agoPost 6
MattJen

rrElite Veteran

UK

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When i was competing in the F3C piros were part of the routines.

The way i learnt was to use a traffic cone and i put it 10 meters in front of me, and learnt to hover tail in over that cone holding it for 3 secs, i then moved to 45o and learnt to do the same, gradually i built up in 45o increments a complete circle all with the helli over that cone.. the benfit of moving at 45o increments is you havent got far to move the hellie if you get uncomfortable, going from side on to tail in a big movement, but side on to 45o isnt.. and the key is not moving on until you have masterd each increment.

It did take some time i have to admit, and when you see fellow pilots screaching around it does make you feel that hovering is boring, but once i masterd that slow piro in both directions no matter which way the wind was blowing i caught up very quickly cos i had masterd the angles and orientation in the hover..

I would recommend you imagine a clock face and wrok your way round that clock face at a figruative 15min increment...

Or another way, is to hold the heli over a marker and you walk round the hellie whilst keeping it tail in, - that is very hard but very rewarding...

what ever way you choose build up slowly and enjoy it.

Matt

All The Best

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06-05-2009 09:53 AM  9 years agoPost 7
duceduc

rrKey Veteran

Saitama-Ken, Japan

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YES, piro slow. If you go to fast, you might aswell not move the cyclic to correct it.
I use the 4 points much like the clock as my reference. Depedning on the direction I want the heli to go, I use 12 to move the heli away from me, 3 to move to the right, 6 to move closer to me, 9 to move to the left.

Smoothness will come after practice.

Duc S
Do It! Do It!™
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RCK:24005615-01

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06-05-2009 09:58 AM  9 years agoPost 8
HawkProPilot

rrApprentice

Norfolk, Va.

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Right now I fly only on the sim as I still can not afford to repair my crash (result of a piro gone bad) . I have found that to the left they dont come out too bad, but to the right I am all over the place. I believe it is because of torque, but I can't figure out how to stop it.
EDIT: So basically I am not as spot on as I think I am in all hover orientations? Would that be a correct assumption?

I need to get a second job just to buy parts.

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06-05-2009 10:06 AM  9 years agoPost 9
ch-47c

rrElite Veteran

san jose, ca

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I learned to piro by climbing out away from me straight out in front. This keeps you from hitting the ground because you are progressively flying away from it and increasing altitude. It will build your confidence. Hover like you normally do and then do a slow climb-out away in front. When the heli is about 15 feet high add rudder. Slow the piro down when you're ready to stop and try to stop nose straight out or 90 degrees either side and fly away. I kept it up until about 50 feet. After that piros were easy.

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06-05-2009 10:13 AM  9 years agoPost 10
HawkProPilot

rrApprentice

Norfolk, Va.

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The problem with that is that I am trying to keep the piro in one spot. I already know how to do it with the heli moving (albeit unintentional movement). I don't know that I would be able to make the connection between piro'ing in a moving climb out and a steady piro in a hover.

I need to get a second job just to buy parts.

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06-05-2009 10:31 AM  9 years agoPost 11
MattJen

rrElite Veteran

UK

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I believe it is because of torque, but I can't figure out how to stop it

you are correct, you will find that it likes to piro one way better than the other..

The way it was explained to me is the tail is an Anti torque device,
when the tail is countering the torque produced by the rotor you are controlling it better..

Where as if you allow the torque effect of the hellie to spin the hellie you are not in complete control and that is why it tends to slide off..

The only way to over come it is stick time, i can do both ways fine, but it has taken a lot of practice....

A marker is always a good idea and it is something that the sim wont teach or help with...

Or even a 2 meter circle, and learn to keep it within that circle that is another method i used.

Matt

All The Best

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06-05-2009 10:38 AM  9 years agoPost 12
MattJen

rrElite Veteran

UK

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Watch at YouTube

just to give you an idea

I mark out a square, with small cones i got from a toy shop and have a 2 meter circle bit of carpet in the middle.

Matt

All The Best

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06-05-2009 04:36 PM  9 years agoPost 13
VooDooX

rrElite Veteran

San Francisco Bay Area CA, US (San Mateo)

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SIMULATOR SIMULATOR SIMULATOR SIMULATOR...i think i got the message across but ideally get your heli nice and level and hovering hands free in 1 spot then start the piro if your heli is perfectly setup it shouldn't move much at all

Velocity 50 "99.9999999999999% of an atom is empty space." also 01001000 01001001

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06-05-2009 06:37 PM  9 years agoPost 14
Yug

rrMaster

UK. Herts

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Practice 8s with both CW and CCW piro as these are good for keying you into slightly advancing or retarding the stir as the heli changes direction. It's amazing how much harder the 8s can be than piro loops or single axis piroflips; same thing really just different collective control and stir radius.
There is less tail authority in CW piros due to the fact that the tail is already heavily biased as it's compensating for torque. Consequently, if you are piroing with a high air speed, the chance of the tail getting whippy increases to the point where it can completely let go. CCW is no where near as demanding.

Vegetable rights and Peace

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06-05-2009 06:52 PM  9 years agoPost 15
30636086

rrKey Veteran

Tacoma, WA

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SIMULATOR SIMULATOR
+1

I dont suffer from mental iIlness, I actually enjoy mine!

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06-05-2009 07:08 PM  9 years agoPost 16
Raffy

rrElite Veteran

Chicago, Illinois

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Rudder to throttle mix might help you achieve a steady pirouete.

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06-05-2009 07:13 PM  9 years agoPost 17
alawel

rrVeteran

Springfield Oregon

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Something I use for piros is a lower headspeed and lower control throws. I use Idle up 1 for piros, I have mine set at 1650 and 80% dual rates with about 30% on the expo. This gives softer cyclics and lower piro rate due to the lower head speed and less throw which makes it easier to keep from over controling. The positioned contol input points is a good tip too.

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06-05-2009 11:51 PM  9 years agoPost 18
HawkProPilot

rrApprentice

Norfolk, Va.

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SIMULATOR SIMULATOR SIMULATOR SIMULATOR...i think i got the message across
I have been working on it for weeks now and can not seem to get the feel for it...Right now I fly only on the sim...
I got the message of a simulator years ago. I have owned realflight G2 and G3 since before it had heli software to go along with it. Do you have any tips for how to do it other than "practice on a sim" I think most if not all that fly helis have that point down.
I get what you said about gettting the heli nice and level, and I have done that and like I said it goes ok in one direction but not the other.

Thanks all for the tips for practicing, hopfully next time it wont result in a pile of heli.

I need to get a second job just to buy parts.

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06-06-2009 01:46 AM  9 years agoPost 19
ch-47c

rrElite Veteran

san jose, ca

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The problem with that is that I am trying to keep the piro in one spot. I already know how to do it with the heli moving (albeit unintentional movement). I don't know that I would be able to make the connection between piro'ing in a moving climb out and a steady piro in a hover.
Is the nose-in position the uncomfortable spot?

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06-06-2009 04:27 AM  9 years agoPost 20
HawkProPilot

rrApprentice

Norfolk, Va.

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The problem is that in one direction, I can not seem to keep the piro over a marker on the ground. It is not necessarily tail in, nose in, or side on, but the whole piro.

I need to get a second job just to buy parts.

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