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HomeAircraftHelicopterGasser Model RC HelicoptersOther › RC Heli's Versus the Real Thing - An Observation
06-05-2009 07:02 AM  9 years agoPost 1
Excalibur

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Been spending the last week here in Glacier National Park on vacation, and today drove past the local heli tour outfit. Slammed on the brakes and turned around to find out how much much it would cost to tour the park in one of their heli's. Long story short, $220 a piece for one hour. Within a short period of time, my wife and I were loading up in a Bell Long Ranger III (six seater).

It was so cool hearing, feeling, and seeing that bird fire up and take off from the inside, I was just totally blown away. I kept making mental comparisons between my gasser and the real thing, and came to a few interesting conclusions:

1. RC turbines really DO sound exactly like their big brothers, and the rotor run-up looks very similar.

2. As the rotor blades started spinning up faster and faster, there was a point where the whole airframe SHOOK, just like my Spectra (and Predator) do when winding the blades up to speed. Once it passed through this resonance, things smoothed out nicely when it came up to operating RPM, just like the models.

3. You can HEAR and See the blades flap when the pilot makes collective or cyclic changes during flight, especially making a sustained left or right-hand turn. Yup, you hear a BRAAAPPP every so often during maneuvers, just like the models.

4. There is a lot of tail-wagging during flight, relatively speaking. A perfectly solid tail, while highly desired on our RC helis, is totally unrealistic, gyro or not, because the big boys have several degrees of tail-wag, right and left consistently during all phases of flight.

5. I REALLY WANT TO FLY ONE OF THESE BEASTS! Unfortunately, I don't have the $60 to $70K it takes to get certified, so the RC helis will have to suffice for now.

I know it might be a bit off-topic, but I figured you guys might appreciate a different perspective. If you ever get a chance, spend the money and take a heli-tour somewhere. Believe me, you WON'T regret it. It is just too cool.

Xcal

Camper Fuel: It's Not Just for Breakfast Anymore

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06-05-2009 12:45 PM  9 years agoPost 2
phoneman

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Georgetown, Georgia USA

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You need to look at the Mosquito line of ultralite and experimental helis. When you get through drooling over them checkout helicycle.com. Don't blame anything on me when you're finished.

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06-05-2009 02:38 PM  9 years agoPost 3
litespeed600

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St. Charles, Missouri

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This is the exact reason I got into helicopters!!!
Unfortunately, I don't have the $60 to $70K it takes to get certified, so the RC helis will have to suffice for now.
It's actually only about $12 thousand on average to get your license with a rotorywing rating.

I've been drooling over the Helicycle

http://www.helicycle.com

for years and was very close to getting one in 2002 till I met a local pilot with over 12,000 pilot in command hours that picked a Helicycle as his own personal helicopter. That impressed me! When I sat my 6'4" 225lbs body in it I realized I just don't fit size wise and I'm 5lbs to heavy which I knew. I just figured I would eat less since I really don't have any fat on me. Wife and kids told me that I was just too big for that thing. Bummed out I gave up having a personal heli till the Mosquito came along.

http://www.innovator.mosquito.net.nz/mbbs2/

It has a 240lbs seat limit (Yea!) but the turbine is about 45 to 50 G's ready to fly.....over my spending limit so when I'm ready to go I'll prolly go for the 3 cylinder XM3,

http://www.innovator.mosquito.net.nz/mbbs2/specs.asp

There is a guy close that just had on built by the factory told me to come up and check it out.....I hope I fit!

The helicycle has been out for awhile and they have a factory checkout which means they come and make sure your heli is perfect and they fly it first, for the first 10 or 20 hours. Mosquito does NOT do this so I want to see long term how they hold up.....I just lurk on the boards just asking ocasional questions.

Man do those look like fun.

One day soon.

Tom

Married with 2 kids, I am no stranger to pain!

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06-05-2009 03:13 PM  9 years agoPost 4
Dr. Fibinotchi

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Sioux Falls SD

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hmmm
sound like a fun experiance.

"several degrees of tail-wag, right and left consistently during all phases of flight.
"

So because of this any type of gyro would not be able to implimented on full size? Just curious..Its 2009 and I would have thought some type of gyro could have been implimented...yet we see all helis the pilot is adding pitch while climbing out in the tail.

-Cody

If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion.

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06-05-2009 07:49 PM  9 years agoPost 5
pgkevet

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Wales

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It's actually only about $12 thousand on average to get your license with a rotorywing rating.
..so a lot less than my repair bills....
When I sat my 6'4" 225lbs body in it I realized I just don't fit size wise and I'm 5lbs to heavy which I knew
..if you're that small and can't get in then I got no chance! (by another 3 inches and 15 lbs)

pgk

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06-05-2009 08:52 PM  9 years agoPost 6
jgoodsell

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Sherbrooke, Qc, Canada

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yet we see all helis the pilot is adding pitch while climbing out in the tail.
I'd call this the KISS system.

There is so much things to check on these aircraft. Who wants to add an ultra electronic flight control gizmo's that you would have to send miles away for an annual checkup !?? and at what costs ??

Those are kept for ultra modern helicopters for witch a high maintenace budget isn't an issue !

Jeffrey

It seams that Gravity is worst around here !

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06-06-2009 12:10 AM  9 years agoPost 7
predatorman

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Falkland Islands

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Hi there, I work with real Helis, two Sikorsky 61's, that are on a contract to the Military...supplying radar bases with essentials and people, underslung loads etc.

I got into RC helis about 5 years back, before getting the job I have now. I am slowly converting some of the guys at work to RC helis

We get to go up for test flights, and watching the Pilots do thier thing is very interesting. The test flights are mainly for engine tuning.
I am amazed at the turbines these things have, they dish out a lot of horsepower (about 1200 each) and it takes two men to lift a Main blade...nuts and bolts look impossibly small for the jobs that they have to do...the list goes on.

What is so darn cool about these machines, is that they have saved a LOT of peoples lives with Search and Rescue and so on....nothing else can touch the Helicopter in terms of performance....and with all those moving parts you pay attention to detail...thats for sure.

Tell you what though, its funny watching Pilots and Engineers drooling over the Wren Turbine I just got for my next project

Quality takes........time!

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06-06-2009 04:57 AM  9 years agoPost 8
BrunoBL

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Pomerode, SC, Brazil -26.71, -49.17

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way too cool!
I have a commercial multiengine/IFR CFII (fixed wing) rating, but before any of this (30 years ago actually) I did get the chance to fly some 50 hours in a Bell 47.

From what I recall, that helicopter was a lot more unstable (but with longer response times to pilot input) than any of our RC models. It demanded continuous control input, much more so than RC helis, just to keep a constant attitude.

Timing was everything, and cyclic input had to be slow, deliberate but of very small amplitude, or overcontrol was sure to follow.

Fun days.
Thanks for bringing some of that back!


...Bruno.
Spectra G on Avgas 100LL, Jewel generator
T-Rex450SE V2
DX7

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06-06-2009 10:24 AM  9 years agoPost 9
carpman

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Spain

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At least you don't have to learn nose in and side on manouvres with a real heli

I was going to say you don't have to worry about inverted either but have you seen the Red Bull stunt pilot!

KEVIN
Trex 500ESP | Trex 600NSP | Trex 700 Gasser | MA Spectra G

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06-06-2009 11:27 PM  9 years agoPost 10
AIRPLANEDOOD

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WEST JORDAN, UTAH

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at 220 a hour i would run out of money in a hurry taking rides...i would love to get a ride in one myself.that would be cool to domike s.


ohhhh i love the smell of gasssser in the morning :)

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06-07-2009 04:09 AM  9 years agoPost 11
nelsonsdive

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Orlando, FL, United States

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Tail Wag?
I've only flown an R-22 and an SH-2F (both during "test flights", but tail wag on both is totally up to the pilot.
The SH-2f has a full autopilot that has No detectable tail wag, even when maneuvering near ground in wind (Pilot did take-off and landing using the auto, he just "dialled" it up to 50 ft), then he took control, insane, but it does exactly what you tell it. Per the pilot, the sensors (gyro in the body and force sensors in the hub maybe?) detect changes and the computer "adjusts" the cyclic and tail before I ever felt anything. The new "fly by wire" will be even better, the SH-2F is probably not in service any more?
The Robinson R-22 was totally different, all manual, but your body tells you when your tail is wagging/you're out of co-ordinated flight (from my plank days), and it's automatic to adjust, easier than in RC because it's almost bio-feedback. I've known a Lot of pilots who intentionally make passengers queasy, it's an ego thing I guess.

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06-07-2009 01:14 PM  9 years agoPost 12
Justin Stuart (RIP)

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Plano, Texas

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I've ridden in an EC-135 and on autopilot the thing is smooth as silk. All flights are GPS controlled from takeoff to landing so it is just like riding in the car. When the pilot momentarily disconnected the autopilot (for our amusement), it became very unstable with the tail moving back and forth as you described.

This helicopter doesn't have any hinges on the head such that the swash forces the composite blades to "flex" slightly with no pivot of any kind. I can't imagine this configuration could get more than 2 or 3 degrees of collective, but maybe this is enough. In addition, the tail has a "fenestron" which uses multiple blades spaced at variable angles/degrees to try and cancel out harmonic frequencies. The whole purpose of this helicopter it to be as quiet as possible, so disappointingly it doesn't make any of the BRAAAPPP noise.
5. I REALLY WANT TO FLY ONE OF THESE BEASTS! Unfortunately, I don't have the $60 to $70K it takes to get certified, so the RC helis will have to suffice for now.
I think this is probably the main reason most of us have gotten into RC.

Have you ever heard an RC heli powered by a turbine? These things are loud as h*ll, yet by comparison the turbines on the full scale helicopters are relatively quiet. I wonder why the larger turbine engines are so much quieter? Seems to me like the opposite would be true.

Avant RC
Scorpion Power Systems
Thunder Power RC
Kontronik Drives

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06-09-2009 05:23 AM  9 years agoPost 13
Excalibur

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I figured there are a number of full size helis with stability controls on-board, but it appears to be the minority. Most of the heli pilots I've heard of prefer to just use there feet to control tail wag - go figure.

I work with a young guy who just got qualified to fly turbines after gaining his rotory certificate. To be commercially rated, you have to have a VFR and instrument rating, then a CFI (certified Flight Instructor) rating, followed by a commercial rating. By the time it's all said and done you're into it $65K to $70K.

This kid went from being one of our maintenance men to flying full size Bell helicopters. I'm just totally green with envy. Unfortunately, it remains a dream for the vast majority of us.

Xcal

Camper Fuel: It's Not Just for Breakfast Anymore

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06-17-2009 03:52 AM  9 years agoPost 14
torque

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bolivia , north carolina

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excalibur
i have thousand of hours flying full scale helis. while at bell helicopter one day for annual training i popped in a tape they had in the pilots lounge. the tape showed the tail boom of a bell heli. in flight. there was a camera mounted on the fuselage pointing to the tail rotor. you would not believe the movement on the tail while in flight. it was almost scarey.

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06-17-2009 03:59 AM  9 years agoPost 15
Excalibur

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you would not believe the movement on the tail while in flight. it was almost scarey.
Yup, I was surprised how much tail movement there was in this full size heli. It all comes down to that "gyro" between the pilots ears, and his "servo" response (his feet!).

Xcal

Camper Fuel: It's Not Just for Breakfast Anymore

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06-17-2009 04:04 AM  9 years agoPost 16
torque

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bolivia , north carolina

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after around 40-45 kts the heli will pretty much weather vane in flight. while taking off and landing or any other power change is when you have to really get on the petals. when i flew back out MD600 notar from arizona to west virginia your feet got tired. with the notar you were constantly dancing on the petals with that large canister on the back.

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06-17-2009 04:08 AM  9 years agoPost 17
Excalibur

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when i flew back out MD600 notar from arizona to west virginia your feet got tired. with the notar you were constantly dancing on the petals with that large canister on the back.
Hmmm. . . never thought of that. I wonder if a fenestron would be easier? I'm really puzzled why more full size heli's don't have gyros on the tail. . .

Xcal

Camper Fuel: It's Not Just for Breakfast Anymore

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06-17-2009 01:50 PM  9 years agoPost 18
torque

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bolivia , north carolina

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excalibur
on the 600 notar i flew , we had aircraft #2 you used the foot petals to rotate the canister like the tail rotor blades on a standard heli. there was so much work load on the pilot with the notar that Mcdonald douglas later installed SAS on the 600 notars not sure about the 520's and 902's . the SAS is a stabilization augumentation system, (like a gyro system)

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06-26-2009 02:21 PM  9 years agoPost 19
lazy-b

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Manila, Philippines

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Guys, I think its cheaper to purchase a Brand New Ultra-Light Helicopter than Renting a Helicopter.

Before I purchase our Ultra-light Single Seater Helicopter Revolution Mini 500, I Rented a Robinson R44 for an Hours just for Curiosity, Its was my first time to try flying a Full Size Helicopter, I was thinking it was very easy to fly it ,In reality, It was difficult to fly, its like sterring your car with your foot when Hovering it......its much easier to fly it like an airplane.

look like the cheapest and safest way to learn to fly the helicopter is to contruct the Helicopter Seat with a full size Joystick, Pedal and Collective Pitch arm and connect it to your Transmitter.

http://www.heli-chair.com/

You can Seat at your HOME-MADE Helicopter chair to control your RC Helicopter, you can purchase an FPV (First Person View) Camera and Mount it to your RC Helicopter.

http://www.getinthecockpit.com/

if you can fly the RC Helicopter without any Gyro, I'm sure you can fly a Full-size Hellicopter.

I plan to contruct a Heli-chair and get a FPV Camera mount it on PREDATOR Helicopter before flying our Full size Revolution Mini 500 Helicopter.

Ellion

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06-26-2009 02:49 PM  9 years agoPost 20
ErichF

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Sutton, NH

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Revolution Mini 500 Helicopter
Good luck with that thing. I hope your life insurance is paid up.

Erich

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