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HomeAircraftHelicopterMain Discussion › Consensus on what 3D flying is?
06-03-2009 03:27 PM  9 years agoPost 1
Melnic

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Columbia, MD,USA

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I"ve been flying RC helicopters for a number of years now, but I had taken an 8 year break and came back flying last year. I see the term 3D all over the place. Manufacturers post it on thier product like anti-lock breaks are for cars. This is a recent term (to me) and I see it being used (or overused) even by beginners "I want a 3D helicopter". Heck I see it posted on helicopters with brushed motors for goodness sakes! I hear about a guy doing a standing back flip or a Pirouette and say he's doing 3D and the guy has yet to do an axial roll or a regular run of the mill loop or 540 stall turn! Here is a link I found just this morning

http://www.clevelandheli.co.uk/Glossary.htm

Based on this list, I can perform about 8 of these already but don't consider that I'm a "3D" pilot just yet.

What is the consensus for the majority of pilots out there that classifies something as 3D?

Or has this been discussed/argued before?

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06-03-2009 03:43 PM  9 years agoPost 2
JRjoe

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Jonesville , IN USA #1

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3D is old school.

It's all 4D now a days.....


JRjoe.....
Indoor plumbing??? No, we don't need that!!!

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06-03-2009 04:15 PM  9 years agoPost 3
jbdww

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Round Rock, Texas

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06-03-2009 04:18 PM  9 years agoPost 4
Darren Lee

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Woodstock, GA

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Or has this been discussed/argued before?

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06-03-2009 04:52 PM  9 years agoPost 5
ShankBones

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La Quinta, CA USA

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JRjoe
3D is old school.
It's all 4D now a days.....
What is 4D.

I thought there was only:
Hover/FF (entry level)
Sport/FFF (autos,flips,rolls,loops,inverts etc..)
Mad 3D (Pro or Big Boy status..)

4D??

"Whats Right is Right and Whats Wrong is Not Flying"

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06-03-2009 04:54 PM  9 years agoPost 6
thenewguy

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Corvallis, Oregon Where there is liquid sunshine!

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I think it's just all how you take it. I have been flying for 8 years now and do not consider myself a 3D pilot. More of a good sport flyer.

If you really want to see the skills of a good pilot, hand them a Raptor 30 with a O.S. .32 in it and have them do all there 3D maneuvers with it. A really good 3D pilot will be able to do it, because they know about collective management.

Also if you see some kid doing all this flipping around and he says he's a 3D pilot, tell him to fly circuits in all orientations turning into him and away. Most likely he can't, because all he knows is flips and crap.

Good pilots know all the basics before they are true 3D pilots.

Just my thoughts.

Chris

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06-03-2009 05:36 PM  9 years agoPost 7
ErichF

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Sutton, NH

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Modern-day 3D purists will essentially say that unless you are doing everything Curtis, Alan, Jason, et al are doing, then you aren't flying 3D. Every year the envelope gets closed further and further in order keep the definition as closed as possible.

From a marketing standpoint, 3D is doing anything beyond the classic aerobatic manuevers (manuevers using combinations of rolling and looping elements). So, that's why you tend to see it so vague in marketing terms.

Since I go back well before the 3D thing, I have a more rudamentary definition of 3D that the purists would hate me for...but what do I care. 3D to me is competently performing any element of flight (rolling/looping) in any of the 3 dimensions of helicopter flight. At the most basic, a roll performed in backwards and sideways flight was well as forwards. Purists would argue you would have to be piroetting, flipping, pumping the collective, tap dancing on one foot, and kicking a cat with the other before it's called 3D.

Example: to me, a forward or backward stationary flip is not 3D, but doing it while travelling sideways or backwards would be a 3D manuever.
Erich

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06-03-2009 06:28 PM  9 years agoPost 8
whirlyspud

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USA

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I don't care how good you are, there are just some things that a raptor 30 with a 32 just aint going to cut it for.

Mike

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06-03-2009 10:42 PM  9 years agoPost 9
DarkSide41

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Sylacauga Alabama USA

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3D is 3D, you obviously have levels of expertise however.
I can do some 3D but I'm certainly no master stickbanger nor care to be ....

A flip is 3D. A Loop ..ehh.
A Tic Toc is 3D. A Roll ...ehhh

" The biggest threat to our freedom is not from foreign terrorist , but domestic morons"

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06-03-2009 10:57 PM  9 years agoPost 10
JAGNZ

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Auckland, New Zealand

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Read Augusto's definition here:
http://www.runryder.com/t6270p1/
I came up with my own definition of 3D that I'll submit here for your consideration.

I believe 3D is any maneuver that to be performed requires the constant harmonized input of three or more controls simultaneously while the maneuver is taking place.

Using this I divided the maneuvers in two categories:

1) Quasi-static controls maneuvers:
Under the previous definition a loop, a roll and a 360 pirouette are not 3D. Those maneuvers are performed by simply leaving one control in a single spot to complete the maneuver with slight and precise modifications to compensate or correct for a perfect maneuver. Even if the maneuver requires several inputs such as in a cobra roll you do them one at a time. This doesn't mean at all that non-3D maneuvers are easy to perform. I actually believe that precise non-3D maneuvers require a very high level of sophistication from the pilot.

2) Dynamic controls maneuvers:
I consider maneuvers to be 3D as those where during the whole time while the maneuver is happening two or more controls are being changed constantly to achieve a smooth harmonized effect.

For instance:
1) A piro flip requires constant moving of the elevator and aileron control in a circular stirring and synchronized fashion while at the same time rudder is kept at a constant rate while the pitch is being changed up and down constantly to prevent it from falling. 3 controls changed simultaneously.

2) A rolling circle requires constant traveling through positive pitch with a bit of left rudder then down to the middle of the travel, no rudder and at this point that the heli is in a knife edge position a bit of down elevator then negative pitch and a bit of right rudder and then back to the center on the left stick and again while in knife edge a bit of up elevator. 4 Controls simultaneously being changed

3) A piro loop requires precise control of the pitch so the model won't lose momentum while at the same time you need to rotate the right stick in syncronization with the heli's orientation to the loop plane.

Using these criteria some maneuvers that most people consider 3D such as a funnel wouldn't fall into the 3D category because they comply with the Quasi-static controls maneuver definition. Now if you take a static funnel and you make it into a morphing funnel then it becomes 3D because to perform it you need to constantly be changing three controls simultaneously.

By the same token, fast backwards flying used to require constant input to prevent the tail from weathervaning. Nowadays with the advent of heading-hold gyros this maneuver changed from a 3D maneuver to a non-3D maneuver.

The same way if instead of a 360 pirouette you start pirouette-flying around then you need to start moving the elevator, aileron and pitch to control the location you want to move the helicopter to and this at the same time synchronized with the heli's attitude towards the flight path.

Those are what I consider the difference between 3D and non-3D maneuvers.

Augusto.
That is 3D for me.


Jason Greenwood

www.3dheli.co.nz

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06-03-2009 11:04 PM  9 years agoPost 11
airboss

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OC ,california

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looks like I better go back to 3D'ing my planks.and then throw in some 4D heli stuff so people wont think I'm a rookie.

Urukay HPS3 KSE 700 HPS3

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06-04-2009 12:11 AM  9 years agoPost 12
outhouse

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auburn ca

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its all personal choice there is no real definition despite what people say.

your [the OP] complaint is that people use the term as a marketing ploy and throw it around loosely.

your point is valid.

what do they call planks that can just hover vertical?

I would think if you can hover inverted in control your beginning 3D but thats just and only me.

If a green pea doing flips and rolls says hes doing 3D more power to him. You going to waist time and argue???? so who the heck cares what the real definition is.

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06-04-2009 12:56 AM  9 years agoPost 13
RappyTappy

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Traveling the USA

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"Momma always said, 3D is like a box of chocolates, never know whatcha gonna get."

"3D Happens"

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06-04-2009 12:56 AM  9 years agoPost 14
psawya

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Woodinville, WA

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It doesn't matter what definition you try to give it, there will always be a judgement call as to what constitutes 3D.

An example, not for arguments sake but to stress my point......

So technically a stationary piro would be 3D, it requires the precise input of collective to keep a stationary altitude, precise cyclic (lateral and fore/aft) to keep a stationary spot over the ground and precise tail control to maintain an exactly consistent piro rate.

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06-04-2009 01:45 AM  9 years agoPost 15
bah7566

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Colorado

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I do 3D every time I fly because the stickers that came with my heli say "3D". LOL too funny.

I am a Heli addict!!!

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06-04-2009 02:15 AM  9 years agoPost 16
RappyTappy

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Traveling the USA

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If you really wanna fly 3D you have to install the 3D sticker upside down on the canopy when its sitting upright, straight baller right there.

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06-04-2009 02:30 AM  9 years agoPost 17
airboss

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OC ,california

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how about we just call it "XD" extreme heli

Urukay HPS3 KSE 700 HPS3

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06-04-2009 03:26 AM  9 years agoPost 18
Zaneman007

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Texas - USA

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3D is the ability to fly through a "tail blow out", and saying, "Yea, I meant to do that."

Old Guys Rule!

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06-04-2009 03:28 AM  9 years agoPost 19
jbdww

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Round Rock, Texas

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^^^^ Just did this the other day.

Skids Up
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06-04-2009 04:50 AM  9 years agoPost 20
Henrik Engert

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Cedar Park, TX

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^^^^ Just did this the other day.
Hey, you have to show that to me

Hirobo XSpec EVO
Hirobo SDX
Futaba 12Z FASST

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HomeAircraftHelicopterMain Discussion › Consensus on what 3D flying is?
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