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MSH Protos, Mini Protos
› PROTOS is it me or do i hear more problems about this heli
06-06-2009 11:51 PM  9 years agoPost 21
Ronald Thomas

rrMaster

Gainesville, Fl, USA

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Tony, I thought I told you to go full size a while ago

Team MikadoUSA 480XXTreme, 550SX, 600SX, 700XXTreme, 800XXTreme!!

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06-07-2009 01:06 AM  9 years agoPost 22
tchavei

rrProfessor

Portugal

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You did but I was stubborn. The Inolab 261HB beats the hell out of 9257 and running at 6V I believe it matches the 9254 specs. Thats why I'm rather skeptic that the bls251 will bring any improvement.

The problem is that I can't say the tail is bad. It does hold in inverted backwards flight (as long as you don't push it too much) and it does hold in a terminal tail slide but especially in aileron tic tocs it starts to drift.

I'll try the bls251 tomorrow but before that I'm going to give it one last chance as is because a few days ago I noticed that my elevator servo was jamming on the bottom (long story, its on another thread about gear debris) so even that could have been influencing the overall behaviour. I'll check and report back thats for sure

Tony


--------------------
"Perfection and patience usually walk side by side..."

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06-07-2009 10:59 AM  9 years agoPost 23
DTM

rrApprentice

Belgium

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I have been flying 2 of them for over a year now with zero issues. Tail holds fine with 9257 and 520 gyro. Only the canopy (the plastic one) is quite fragile.

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06-07-2009 11:23 AM  9 years agoPost 24
whisperdancer

rrApprentice

Porto, Portugal

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Having the best specs (speed and torque) isn't always a guarantee of a better servo. If the resolution isn't good, or the potentiometer quality is worse than others, the servo might not be what we expected.
I remember that the 9257 with a Solid-G works better in the tail of the T-Rex 500 than with the inolab.
I thought of giving it a chance in the Protos tail along with the Spartan, but it's behaving just like the T-Rex tail with the Inolab.

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06-07-2009 12:24 PM  9 years agoPost 25
tchavei

rrProfessor

Portugal

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I tried both and the inolab works better for me than the 9257. However I'm not complaining about the tail holding per se. During a normal sport flight you would say the tail is perfect. Its when you start combining heavy cyclics when the tail starts to go off. Another aspect (now almost cured with much lower deceleration settings) is when you stop the tail during a piro tic toc, it whips like crazy for a brief moment.

Tony


--------------------
"Perfection and patience usually walk side by side..."

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06-07-2009 06:56 PM  9 years agoPost 26
whisperdancer

rrApprentice

Porto, Portugal

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One of the problems I have in mine, is that the tail, even in hoovering, acts like it's drunk. It goes one side to the other, no matter the gain.
I can notice this even in forward flight, as the heli doesn't have a solid tail and doesn't maintain a straight line.

Tchavei: what's the distance you are using between the ball link and the center of the servo horn?

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06-07-2009 07:14 PM  9 years agoPost 27
tchavei

rrProfessor

Portugal

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I'm back

I'm using 13.5mm distance.

Ok, I have to retreat myself... the tail is perfect again. Weird how an elevator servo problem can reflect itself on the tail during aileron tic tocs. I didn't try the BLS251 eventhough my friend brought it today because I saw no need. It now holds just as good as my vibe 50.

Whisperdancer: if its slowly wagging, it might be the tail linkage. You should be able to move the slider with one finger from extreme to extreme with everything hooked up but no power.

Tony


--------------------
"Perfection and patience usually walk side by side..."

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06-07-2009 07:39 PM  9 years agoPost 28
whisperdancer

rrApprentice

Porto, Portugal

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My tail is completely smooth in all it's path.
Yesterday I've removed the tail rod guide, as it was wearing out the carbon rod. It's even smoother than before!! I feel no resistance at all when moving it by hand. I even used a drop of Tri-Flow on the tail shaft.
I'm using a rather high headspeed, with 15t pinion, 100% throttle curves and some hyperion G3 6s 35C lipos, and noticed some "thin" vibrations on the tail.

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06-07-2009 10:37 PM  9 years agoPost 29
tchavei

rrProfessor

Portugal

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did you do the finger test?

I had to ream the tail links ALOT so it would move absolutely free. I wish I could give you other news but the truth is that I think my tail was never better as today... hum... I did change the tail grips to the "new" ones that come with the spring 2009 bag....

Corrado: Remember when my kit came with an extra main shaft collar? Well I think I must be lucky because my spring 2009 bag came with an extra left tail case?... What are the odds?

Tony


--------------------
"Perfection and patience usually walk side by side..."

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06-07-2009 10:43 PM  9 years agoPost 30
whisperdancer

rrApprentice

Porto, Portugal

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Yes, the finger test: just a touch and the tail will move. I reamed a few times all the links, to the point I was afraid they would come out in flight. All of them are very very smooth and loose.
I have yet to play with the spartan settings over USB.

Tchavei: can you please give me your settings for the gyro?

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06-08-2009 12:04 AM  9 years agoPost 31
tchavei

rrProfessor

Portugal

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Everything stock except:

Deccel gain: 6 (thats 1 or two ticks above 50%) set it, save the file, open the file with notepad and check the value

rudder expo: 40% (I prefer the stock 50% but it was too different from my vbar and piroflip practice was becoming hard because I had to relearn when moving from one bird to the other).

With an Inolab servo 261 put tail speed at 0.06 (if you're running the tail servo at 6V direct). If you're running at 5V then put 0.07

My limits are 105/115 with the Inolab and 13.5mm hole from center.

On the radio (futaba) I'm running 28% gain. You can check "real" gain by plugging the USB cable into the gyro and in the software, you right click the blue top bar and choose "diagnostics"... that will show the "real" gain that the gyro is seeing.

I hope this helps.

Maybe you'll come to the algarve some day? I would be happy to check the bird out if you want.

Regards

Tony


--------------------
"Perfection and patience usually walk side by side..."

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06-08-2009 01:48 AM  9 years agoPost 32
whisperdancer

rrApprentice

Porto, Portugal

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I'm sure if I go this year, I will PM you. Last year I was there with my (now gone) T-Rex 450 doing figure 8's in the end of the afternoons in Praia da Rocha.
Unfortunatelly, I haven't improved much since...

I will try some settings, and keep an eye to the gain. What I'm most worried are the tail stops. The tail bounces a lot with a gain over 20% on a Futaba 7C radio.

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06-08-2009 01:58 AM  9 years agoPost 33
tchavei

rrProfessor

Portugal

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lower deccel to what I said and it won't bounce anymore... I can vouch for that Then you can increase your gain until the tail starts to whip after a piro or during a turn (26-30%).

That slow wag... go check your tail grip bearings... somehow I bet one of them is notchy... report back

I go to Praia da Rocha from time to time but we usually gather at Nave do Barão near Salir (Loulé).

Just chime in when you come, we're there every Sunday no matter what the weather is.

Tony


--------------------
"Perfection and patience usually walk side by side..."

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06-09-2009 07:05 PM  9 years agoPost 34
NTM

rrVeteran

Lloydminster, Alberta, Canada

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I had a few little issues with mine, the tail needs to be absolutely detailed to work properly, even with a big servo.

I ditched my protos because of it's manners in the air, it's got good collective "pop" but lacks cyclic speed or precision. Or even fine precision on the collective really. It's very nervous feeling in general, and there's really no reason it should be.
If you'd never flown anything better, you might not notice or care.
I went to the protos after flying mikado's for a couple years, I'm back to flying mikado's again

I tried a few things to tighten things up, but I think it comes down to the huge ratio from swash to the blade grips. Very little servo movement does alot up top.
I was running 9650's, which are about the best centering mini servo there is, tried moving in a hole on the cyclic servo arms, resized links until I was blue in the face, made sure everything was perfectly smooth and free, and was still disappointed with it's manners vs. my previous mikado helis.

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06-09-2009 07:14 PM  9 years agoPost 35
tchavei

rrProfessor

Portugal

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Well each one has its flying style. I only fly Vibes and I needed a small electric bird that would fit in the back seat and that would allow me to practice during the week. I bought the protos and after being able to repeat my entire repertoire that I do with my vibes, I decided to keep it. Yes, its very sensitive to collective but if you move the linkage one servo hole closer, you can increase resolution and reduce collective throws. About cyclic agility... its less agile than my FBL vibe sure but its agile enough to do the maneuvers no doubt. Just watch the pro's videos and you can see that the protos doesn't lack agility.

Anyway, each one is entitled to his opinion.

This thread is about issues about the protos not whenever the bird might (or not) suit your needs.

Tony


--------------------
"Perfection and patience usually walk side by side..."

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06-09-2009 08:29 PM  9 years agoPost 36
Corrado-Italy

rrVeteran

Italy

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NTM, you forget to mention that the Mikados you are referring to are Flybarless

The day that a Logo 400 Flybarred will fly like this is pretty far away still

Watch at YouTube

Forgot to say Tareq flew Vibe90 and now Turbulence from Hirobo, so i guess he is used to pretty good mechanics.

regards,

Corrado

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06-09-2009 08:48 PM  9 years agoPost 37
whisperdancer

rrApprentice

Porto, Portugal

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lower deccel to what I said and it won't bounce anymore... I can vouch for that Then you can increase your gain until the tail starts to whip after a piro or during a turn (26-30%).

That slow wag... go check your tail grip bearings... somehow I bet one of them is notchy... report back

I go to Praia da Rocha from time to time but we usually gather at Nave do Barão near Salir (Loulé).

Just chime in when you come, we're there every Sunday no matter what the weather is.

Tony
I will do that.
About the wag: I went to my garage and the tail is solid at hovering. The problem is when I take it outside: a little gust of wind, small as it may be, and the tail starts the slow wag, like it's dancing. I't not a contant frequency wag, but it goes one side (10-15mm, and 2 or 3 seconds later, it goes the other side).

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06-09-2009 09:12 PM  9 years agoPost 38
gian

rrVeteran

AZ

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Sounds like gain too high... ?

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06-10-2009 12:02 AM  9 years agoPost 39
tchavei

rrProfessor

Portugal

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Maybe but the spartan doesn't wag... it will start to shake if the gain is too high. Anyway... 26-28% should be perfect for the protos when using stock mounting tape/metal plate/thin double adhesive.

I wonder if you did ground the boom to the motor mount and to the negative pole of the battery? I've seen weird stuff happen with static electricity and the belt IS running right beneath/over the gyro...

my two cents

Tony


--------------------
"Perfection and patience usually walk side by side..."

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06-10-2009 02:24 AM  9 years agoPost 40
Ronald Thomas

rrMaster

Gainesville, Fl, USA

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NTM, Tchavei
I have heard both of you guys say this heli is not quick on the cyclics and it does not feel precise. After seeing Tareq fly this heli into insanity, I have to say it looks precise and quick. I have a Vibe 50 and I used to own a Protos and I can tell you the Protos awas every bit faster as my Vibe is. Are you guys comparing a FBL Vibe and Logo 400 to the flybarred Protos? If so that just is not fair......for them That Protos Tareq is flying is the most insane machine I have ever seen. I am not sure (too quick to see)but I think it still has the flybar
I realize you guys have/had issues with your Proti but when it is setup properly and has great electronics ..........Ron

Team MikadoUSA 480XXTreme, 550SX, 600SX, 700XXTreme, 800XXTreme!!

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