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04-27-2009 02:02 AM  9 years agoPost 1
InvertedDude

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04-27-2009 02:23 AM  9 years agoPost 2
fly be free

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well your not alone on this one for sure
the goverment could releave all debt but what profit is in that ?
it was done during the depreeion and we are almost there so sounds like a good idea to me
but the goverment will never get any better until the people show them that enough is enough and they will not stand for anymore
which can be achieved 2 ways peaceful or not
i dont think it wil be the peaceful way if it does happen
and i was woundering are things really as bad as they are saying it is ?
yes there are layoffs and job losses but i dont think we are getting the whole story and certainly not thet whole truth
anyway just my opinion

There is a very fine line between 'hobby' and 'mental illness.'

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04-27-2009 02:44 AM  9 years agoPost 3
Inspector Fuzz

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First off, things are really not the bad.

The BS stimulust will have some short term effect for a year or so, but things have to get MUCH worse after that.

We will see a continual decline in the US from here on out. With no manufacturing base we don't have anything to sell the rest of the world except Facebook and Twitter and all of the other people in the world have jobs that require their constant attention and don't have the time to screw with that social networking horseshidt anyway.

Sadly, we are still a few years off from the big dump. It won't really happen until the interest on the national debt exceeeds the annual tax revenue.

We are only 40% of the way there now. Obama is helping with that problem, though.

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04-27-2009 02:50 AM  9 years agoPost 4
InvertedDude

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04-27-2009 02:54 AM  9 years agoPost 5
baby uh1

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It won't turn around until we go through a few election cycles and replace the pukes in Wash. with some responsible adults that don't hate America.
A good start would be shooting down ALGORE's jet. Preferably over the Whitehouse or Congress.

Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about!

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04-27-2009 02:58 AM  9 years agoPost 6
InvertedDude

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04-27-2009 03:27 AM  9 years agoPost 7
baby uh1

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Maybe we should start an American taxpayer party or a Constitution party and bypass all of the others completely!

Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about!

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04-27-2009 04:32 PM  9 years agoPost 8
RonHill

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InvertedDude
If the Government is allowed to print money then they should bail us all out or just cancel all debts and start over again.
That is pretty much the WORST course of action.

If the Gov just starts printing money, then the unit of money becomes devalued and you experience a loss of real purchasing power.

Lets say we decided that the new US currency is going to be leaves. (I got this from the Hitchhikers books). All you would have to do is grab a rake or pick some off a tree. The problem is that since leaves are in such an abundance and you can get them easily.... They are pretty much worthless. So you would need bags full of leaves to just buy a coke at the 7/11.

If the Gov just started printing money then it can cause hyperinflation. You would see the money in your bank accounts and any investments become worthless. Your pay would not rise at the same rate, but everything you want to buy would go up in price.

I said this was a possibility when the min wage went up. All that really happened was that the cost of goods went up and only the bottom of the pay range got any rise in pay. If you made 6 bucks an hour, you now got 7.... But if you made 10, you still made 10 so you actually lost buying power when the cost of goods and services went up.

You want to see an example of this in action.... Unions and GM. The unions were able for a spell to push up the wages of the employees far past where the market would have allowed. This in turn required raising prices to meet the increase in expenses, OR cutting costs. Look where that has put them now.... Bankrupt.

Inspector Fuzz has a few good points.... I don't 100% agree that the sky is falling, but the heyday of US blue collar jobs is gone. If you owned a company and had the option of paying 10 bucks to make a product here in the US, or you had the option of paying 3 dollars to have the item built and shipped into the US... Which would you do? Realize that you can only sell this product for about 15 bucks. If you try to sell it for 20 then demand will fall, OR someone else will make it and have it shipped over.

The only jobs that are safe are service jobs, jobs that require special knowledge (Plumber, carpenter, ect), and jobs that require a high degree of education such as Dr's. Notice all of these jobs require LOCATION more than just doing something.

I know a bit about this... My job was just eliminated. I already have a new one, but my old job was "away from the customer" and therefore easy to get rid of. Once the economy turns around, they will need my old position again but with the volume dropping we were over strength. I got the axe based on pure seniority.... A completely BS concept. But legal felt that there would be less lawsuits if they admitted that the company's performance reviews were not actually good representations and then just go by time with the company. 1,000 people were released.

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04-27-2009 08:36 PM  9 years agoPost 9
Hawk4flyer

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The best way to stabilize the US economy is to do away with all intra-state taxes. Increase import taxes by 200% and all will right itself.

We can not continue to punish US workers for their need to earn a decent wage.

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04-27-2009 11:07 PM  9 years agoPost 10
InvertedDude

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04-28-2009 03:24 AM  9 years agoPost 11
RonHill

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Hawk4flyer
Increase import taxes by 200% and all will right itself.
All that will do is raise prices on goods inside the United States to the point that you cannot afford anything. See, once you start protective tariffs, other Countries will as well. So now your exports will stop. This is called protectionism.... and it has been shown over and over not to work.

So with your exports stopped dead, and your locally made products more expensive that you are willing to pay... your economy is done.
We can not continue to punish US workers for their need to earn a decent wage.
"Decent" is subjective. Artificially raising wages just sparks inflation.

Putting up barriers to trade just kills your exports, and raises the cost of goods manufactured inside the US.

The only real hope is to totally embrace the global markets. Specialize in the things that cannot be done away from the source. Work on creating new ideas and technologies.

This requires education. But the blue collar manufacturing jobs that pay 50k+ a year are going away.... A company cannot compete when the cost of labor is 500% higher.

If you want to see this in action.... Look at GM.

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04-28-2009 03:37 AM  9 years agoPost 12
InvertedDude

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04-28-2009 04:22 AM  9 years agoPost 13
baby uh1

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Buisness 101
1) We are paying way to much for the education we get in this country. Period.
2) One of the stupidest things this country does is taxing corporations. This is just a hidden tax on all of us as the companies have to pass this on to their customers as increased operating costs. It doesn't come from the stockholders or the CEO it's just passed on to you.
3) Companies will stop exporting jobs when we stop taxing them out of buisness and stop pricing labor too high.
4) I agree on this point but I don't know if we can enforce it.
5) We owe the Chinese too much money to block them from anything.

Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about!

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04-28-2009 05:14 AM  9 years agoPost 14
philip 01

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I don't feel bad for GM. They paid their workers somewhere around $70 to $80 with their benefits.
how much should they have made, out of curiosity.

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04-28-2009 05:29 AM  9 years agoPost 15
InvertedDude

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04-28-2009 05:41 AM  9 years agoPost 16
philip 01

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understood. we may be able to find people to do it for $10 and hour with no additional benefits. perhaps they could give that a shot.

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04-28-2009 05:47 AM  9 years agoPost 17
InvertedDude

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04-28-2009 07:58 AM  9 years agoPost 18
RonHill

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baby uh1
1) We are paying way to much for the education we get in this country. Period
Yes and no..... I look at it as two separate types of degrees. Hard and soft. Hard degrees are things like engineering, medicine...ect. You show me a guy with a degree in engineering and he can find work. Show me an MD and he can find work, show me a guy with a JD and he can find work. 'Soft' degrees like marketing, Business management...ect. Well they are a dime a dozen and I know plenty of folks with these degrees that are not working. My GF has an MBA and it took her 9 mths to find a job.
2) One of the stupidest things this country does is taxing corporations. This is just a hidden tax on all of us as the companies have to pass this on to their customers as increased operating costs. It doesn't come from the stockholders or the CEO it's just passed on to you.
True. I can see a nominal rate, but high taxes on business... Just kills business. But, taxing the big bad company is *popular*... After all they are a faceless, evil, organization that wants to make *GASP* profit!!!!!! So, morons think that taxing the hell out to them is putting to the man.... Never mind that the company just raises costs, or reduces costs (read salary and benefits) to stay profitable.
3) Companies will stop exporting jobs when we stop taxing them out of buisness (sic) and stop pricing labor too high.
Yep.... I bet that if anyone that bitches about outsourcing owned a company and they could pay 10 bucks to have a 15 dollar product made here in the US, or they could pay 3 bucks to have it made in China... I bet they would all have it made in china.

My proof? Occam's Razor. If you thought that people would pay more for a US made product because it was made in the US.... Why aren't more things made int he US? Simple.... People think with their wallets. Right now there is a major push to "buy American".... Yet company's are not returning in droves... Why? Because they know that the average consumer will bitch about Walmart buying Chinese products, while shopping at Walmart.

InvertedDude
1)education
Yes education, not just degrees. I can't tell you the number of the students I had in classes in College that could not grasp simple concepts.
2)remove or lower corp taxes to 10% from 33% (some are 15%)
Yep, but many want to grab that "free money" that they think just comes out of thin air. They don't realize that that tax revenue has to come from the consumers pockets.... See number 1.
3)stop exporting jobs to other countries
Easier said than done.... Like I said, Americans are not willing to pay for American labor. They want Chinese prices, but American labor salaries.... You can't have both.

So, are you willing to pay more for products, or are you willing to get paid less?
4)protect our intel properties (china ripping off other brands and stealing it to reproduce on market)
Yes, I am amazed each time I see someone get a hobby product manufactured in China and then act all surprised when a Chinese knockoff comes out a mth later. DUH!!!!!
5)block china from our markets...yes painful pill to ingest. China are not our friends they are a rival.
Never gonna happen. How much are you willing to pay for a Trex? The trick is to become a partner in the global economy, not try to act like a speed bump.

We need to find a way to enter the Chinese market, not block them from ours. I was talking to a buddy today and he told me that Buick's are a big deal in China.... VERY desirable. We need a way to protect our intellectual property and try to minimize the trade imbalance by selling them more goods, not limiting what Americans buy.

You could try a tariff.... But that is only going to raise prices and not really do anything else. It has been tried before and has been shown not to work.

monkey nuttz
understood. we may be able to find people to do it for $10 and hour with no additional benefits. perhaps they could give that a shot.
I always find it funny how people who claim Unions are great... But neglect that the new contracts allow NEW employees to get paid at a greatly reduced rate. The Unions realize that they are out of step... But they are only going to screw the new guy. Everyone seems to be OK with that. The new guys are starting at 12/hr.

Most numbers put the UAW guys getting paid about 10 bucks an hour more than the contemporaries at non union shops.... Still, that's over 20k a year more based on a 40hr week. And the UAW workers make about TWICE what the average salary is.... Now I am ALL for getting paid what you are worth, but is a job like putting speakers in a door worth 30 bucks an hour?

The cost of health care is said to add 1600.00 to the price of every new car. The cost of managing the retirement program is said to add 800.00 per car. I don't have numbers for the salary difference.

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04-28-2009 08:06 AM  9 years agoPost 19
InvertedDude

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04-28-2009 08:48 AM  9 years agoPost 20
philip 01

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The new guys are starting at 12/hr.
depends on the company and industry. perhaps so in automotive industry. in that industry $12 should be fine. no skill required.
Now I am ALL for getting paid what you are worth, but is a job like putting speakers in a door worth 30 bucks an hour?
no. there are a lot of folks that will do the job for $10. no skill required.

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