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HomeAircraftHelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › Aileron trim problem. I'm baffled
04-26-2009 08:38 PM  9 years agoPost 1
Hamo

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Ireland

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In a tail in hover, if the heli rolls to my left I would expect it to roll to my right when it's nose in. Nope, it still rolls to my left. How can this be ? If I apply a few clicks of trim to stop rolling when tail in, it gets worse when nose in. The only possible explanation I can think of is wind blowing from my right ? Could this be the reason ?
Hamo

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04-26-2009 08:44 PM  9 years agoPost 2
airdodger

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Johnston USA

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Clockwise or counterclockwise rotor rotation? How strong is the wind?
You mean tilt, right?

Chris

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04-26-2009 08:46 PM  9 years agoPost 3
Hamo

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Ireland

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Sorry, Raptor 30 V2, clockwise rotation, mild wind. Yes tilt. I am saying left as an example, sometimes it tilts the other way.
Hamo

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04-26-2009 08:50 PM  9 years agoPost 4
AirWolfRC

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42½ N, 83½ W

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Wind from the side . . . . nothing else but.

Hover downwind and prove it to yourself.

Either way, with neutral trim, it will tend to roll downwind.

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04-26-2009 08:59 PM  9 years agoPost 5
Hamo

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Ireland

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Thanks Airwolf, it was the only thing that made sense to me. So what does one do ? Neutral trim and correct with the sticks as you fly ?
Hamo

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04-26-2009 09:05 PM  9 years agoPost 6
J murf

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Ireland

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hi Hamo...I think it might be visual problem. In a tail in hover the heli rotor disc is not level for it to hover but our brain thinks it is (preseption i think its called)..now when its nose in if you try to hover to this level condition the heli will drift off...the heli to look at in a nose in hover has a more pronounced rotor disc tilt than in a tail i hover..or as said above it might be wind...

See i,m hovering..thats advanced warning of a crash

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04-26-2009 09:05 PM  9 years agoPost 7
airdodger

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Johnston USA

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The reason I asked is the heli should have a slight tilt to the right on a clockwise rotation so your heli is not trimed neutral. If it is tilted the opposite direction and the wind is calm it would probably not move downwind nose-in.

Chris

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04-26-2009 09:14 PM  9 years agoPost 8
Hamo

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Ireland

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Jmurf, I am well aware of the visual isues. It's not just the body being tilted, it actually keeps rolling to one side and I have to stop it by applying left or right aileron. Say tail in and it keeps wanting to go left and I move the stick to the right to counteract this. When nose in, it still wants to go my left so applying trim would not solve the problem. It must be the wind.
Hamo

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04-26-2009 09:28 PM  9 years agoPost 9
J murf

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Ireland

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Hamo.. then it must be the wind. next time you fly hover tail in with the wind blowing towards the tail ..then when you turn the heli the wind will be towards the nose ...no left right trim needed but a little foward stick to stop backward drift....Jimmy

See i,m hovering..thats advanced warning of a crash

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04-26-2009 09:34 PM  9 years agoPost 10
Hamo

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Ireland

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Thanks Jimmy, I'll try that. Hopefully tomorrow.
Hamo

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04-26-2009 10:01 PM  9 years agoPost 11
Santiago P

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South West, Ohio

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He he, I will pretend you did not get any good anwsers (you did) and try to make things clear as mud.

If your correcting delta on you heli is zero (R30 is slightly non-correcting), on a CW direction rotor flying in wind from left to right will make the heli lean away from you. Right to left, the rotor will lean towards you, regardless of where the nose is pointed, and assuming neutral CG.

Is just the the effect of assymetric lift due to the advancing blade, I.E. one side of the disk is making more lift than the other side.

Assuming your CG is neutral in hover, trim the heli for no driff in zero wind, and next time you hover in the wind don't retrim, pay attention and you'll se what I mean.
cheers

Santiago

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04-26-2009 11:01 PM  9 years agoPost 12
b morris

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wexford Ireland

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hi hamo it sounds like the left roll you were experiencing was due to wind blowing in to its side.I experienced this myself last weekend hovering my raptor 50 side on.
Good luck with your flying-brendan.............

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04-27-2009 08:46 AM  9 years agoPost 13
Hamo

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Ireland

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MoneyPitVictim, thanks for your explanation. Now I get it. It's to do with the differences in lift created by the advancing blade and the retracting blade. I understand this is what limits the forward speed of any helicopter. At first I thought it was just the wind pushing it from the side and kind of tilting to one side. How stupid.
Hamo

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04-27-2009 09:59 AM  9 years agoPost 14
Paul Woodcock

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Dubai - United Arab Emirates

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Hi guys

I have not flown a R30 for a long time.....if i remember correctly, with the wind from the left, the heli would tilt to the left and hover hands free, same from the right. ie self correct.

With a wind on the nose, it would tilt forward and track into the wind. same with wind on the tail. ie track into the wind.

This was stock with black paddles.

Regards
Paul

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04-27-2009 12:28 PM  9 years agoPost 15
Hamo

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Ireland

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Pwood, what you are saying doesn't make sense. Can you please explain why. With the wind on the nose, I would expect the heli to roll to the right. My explanation is that the advancing blade (LHS) produces more lift than the retracting blade (RHS) therefore the heli will tilt to the right.
Hamo

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04-27-2009 01:02 PM  9 years agoPost 16
airdodger

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Johnston USA

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04-27-2009 05:49 PM  9 years agoPost 17
Paul Woodcock

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Dubai - United Arab Emirates

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Hi Hamo

I am not sure.....it is probably long and involved. The weight of the paddles affect it a lot and the mixing ratios.

With the 3d type setups, the machines tend to get blown with the wind, in any orientation.

With f3c machines you work hard to get it to 'sit' well in the wind.
You play with fly bar ratios, fly bar length, paddles, blades etc, etc
this is a science unto itself.....

Machines that are 'too stable' tend to get 'sucked into the wind' in all orientations.

Regards
Paul

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