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HomeAircraftHelicopterAudacity Models P6 Pantera - Tiger 50 › Runout on fan hub with STOCK Pantera parts
04-26-2009 03:40 PM  9 years agoPost 1
Mr.HillBilly

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Salesville, OH - USA

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How is this for runout?

Watch at YouTube

This is being posted for everyone that says you can not get good runout on stock Pantera parts. This is a unmodified BBC kit that I have used on 4 motors now. I have never gotten this low before but it is proof that it can be done.

So anyone that says you can not get under .002 of a inch you are not trying hard enough.

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04-26-2009 04:44 PM  9 years agoPost 2
rsalazar

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Florida, USA

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Thanks for the video

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04-27-2009 08:14 PM  9 years agoPost 3
petmotel

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DeKalb, IL.

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What about the Clutch?
OK so you went to all that trouble to get the runout on your hub perfect, how well centered is the clutch?

Due to the fact that the BBC hubs have a larger hole to allow for the larger thread size, and nuts of the larger motors, the clutch no longer registers in the hole of the hub (fits snugly). That might very well negate all your efforts to dial the hub in.

The BBC kit should include a spacer to fit between the clutch and hub so that we can be assured the clutch remains centered with the hub, why else go to all the trouble to dial the hub? Ridiculous!

Also I'm glad you had good parts to allow that good of a result. The tapered nuts that I have gotten have ALL had .01" runout, and have had to be trued to get good results. No way can you get it that close when the nuts are that far off.

Jay

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04-28-2009 01:39 AM  9 years agoPost 4
Mr.HillBilly

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Salesville, OH - USA

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To be honest I have never checked the clutch itself, you can only get true readings on 2 sides but I will give it a shot and see what I end up with.

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04-28-2009 02:01 AM  9 years agoPost 5
petmotel

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DeKalb, IL.

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I will give it a shot and see what I end up with
.

I think that would be a prudent measure. I don't know about your clutch, both of the ones I've received in my two kits don't have the mounting holes of the clutch on center with the threaded holes in the hub. They had to be slightly filed to thread into the hub which would only serve to decrease the likelihood that the clutch is perfectly centered.

Is anybody else seeing similar issues with quality control?

Jay

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04-28-2009 12:34 PM  9 years agoPost 6
Mr.HillBilly

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Salesville, OH - USA

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I mounted the new one that came with my latest Pantera (2 for 1 special) and the first time it came up with .002 pulled it back off again and mounted it again and I came up with .0015. The only thing i did when mounting is I keep a little turning presure on the clutch and tightened it down.

Again thoes numbers are only on the solid section where the bolt goes through since the other part is flexable.

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04-28-2009 06:03 PM  9 years agoPost 7
petmotel

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DeKalb, IL.

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That's very good news! I'm thinking that at the RPMs you're turning with the DF motor, balance, and a well centered drive mechanics is critical for component longevity.

I'm not too happy with the the fact that only the two clutch bolts are keeping it held in place, but as of yet I've not found suitable material out of which to make a spacer. I sure wish I had a lathe!

Jay

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04-29-2009 01:25 AM  9 years agoPost 8
Mr.HillBilly

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Salesville, OH - USA

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I hear that about the lathe. I kind of did a little cutting and grinding on the clutch bell I had made up for the 91DF and I have a small wobble now. So I need to take it back and see if he can cut it square again. I still should be up and running this weekend I figure.

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05-05-2009 12:47 AM  9 years agoPost 9
wthford

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Monticello, Illinois

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The best I can get at the top of the hub is .003-.004. But, with the help of a few here, I did finally figure out that it WAS the step on the crankshaft not allowing the hub to seat all the way down. Now I'm not using any washers under the collet, and the collet is almost completely invisible in the hub as viewed from the side. I worked on the runout thing for an hour or better today. I think Jay is right... the nut is the culprit. My collet seems to fit pretty after putting the hub on and taking it off a number of times.

How can I soar with the Eagles when I work with turkeys??

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05-05-2009 03:38 AM  9 years agoPost 10
Mr.HillBilly

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Salesville, OH - USA

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.003 to .004 is great. What I got on this one is RARE, and you need to work at it a bit. I have gotten under .001 five or six times now but my goal to get this low is just a challenge myself than anything else. Unless you are really cranking out the RPMs you probably will never notice any difference between .004 and .0005.

If you are not in a hurry to get it together spend a little more time on it, I bet you will get under .002 Every time I have gotten the numbers I have pulled I am either ready to quit or it is the first couple tries the next day after spending hours trying to get what I want.

I do not figure you have anything wrong with your tapered nut if you are getting down as low as you are.

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05-05-2009 03:55 AM  9 years agoPost 11
petmotel

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DeKalb, IL.

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Mr.Hillbilly is right, it sounds as if your tapered nut is good, or you wouldn't be getting that close.

If you want to know for sure about the nut, just run it up on the crank without the hub and lock it down with the nut that came with the engine. Don't run it up to where the threads end as this might put things off center. Measure it with the dial indicator, just like you were doing with the hub. Chances are you have markings on the nut where it is contacting the hub, that is where you want to check.

Jay

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05-05-2009 04:03 AM  9 years agoPost 12
wthford

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Monticello, Illinois

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Thanks for the input and the tips guys. I may try it again, I don't know. NO more trouble than it is to get the engine out, I'm tempted to go ahead and fly this weekend. I don't think my pinion setup is going to last anyway, based on what I've been told by some of you guys, and will probably be ordering another for another go at it. We'll see how long it lasts.

David

How can I soar with the Eagles when I work with turkeys??

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05-05-2009 04:41 AM  9 years agoPost 13
petmotel

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DeKalb, IL.

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I don't think my pinion setup is going to last anyway,
Did the bearing go on the Raptor pinion real tight like the stock pinion, or was it relatively loose? If it wasn't tight, I have a TON of experience with that, and it's not good LOL! At least like you say, the engine comes out real easy!

You can fly it with the bearing and pinion not joined, it just wears out the pinion pretty quick. You should be able to tell by a squealing sound coming from the heli, at least that's what a Knight "Sport" does when that happens.

Just curious, did you have to trim the end of your crank to get the clutch on?

Jay

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05-05-2009 04:44 AM  9 years agoPost 14
wthford

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Monticello, Illinois

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It wasn't real loose. I scuffed up the inside of the bearing pretty well too. I think I did a pretty good job, but like I said, we'll see.

Yes, I did have to cut my crank. I may have to cut it some more now. Didn't try to put the clutch back on yet. I worked on my new Raptor 30 this evening. Looking to maiden it thie Sunday if the weather is good.

David

How can I soar with the Eagles when I work with turkeys??

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05-05-2009 12:06 PM  9 years agoPost 15
ProModeler

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Sanford, FL (Orlando area)

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Anything under .005" is fine, that's the spec. If you're like Mr. Hillbilly and take it as a challenge to yourself, the fact is you 'can' do better. Alternatively, if you're a bolt it on and forget it kind of modeler, just do so and fly, it'll work fine. But if you're a tinkerer, then unlike competing models where the hub threads on, e.g. cannot be fiddled, my taoered collet and tapered nut arrangement is a plus. That said, once you go under .005" the average customer probably cannot tell much difference because there are other areas, which need careful attention as well, e.g. blade balance, flybar balance, tail rotor balance, hub balance, etc. and you can drive yourself nuts with a high point balancer by working for the ultimate - and not see much difference in the end result. Some folks are more anal than others, this is a sport where attention to detail pays off, so pick a rainy day and go for it. The name of the game is fun!


John Beech
AMA # 47381
IRCHA #745

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05-05-2009 11:45 PM  9 years agoPost 16
Mr.HillBilly

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Salesville, OH - USA

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You calling me a bit anal, JB.

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05-06-2009 12:46 AM  9 years agoPost 17
wthford

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Monticello, Illinois

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Well, the fact is, I think I was getting a little bit more vibration that it should have, that is why I took some of the guy's advice and did something. I am a big advocate of doing nothing, gets you the same. Also, I have a significant investment in electronics that don't like vibration.

My Pantera went in at the end of the last season. The crystal came out of the reciever... I did not tape it in... but I wonder why it came out....

Doh.

How can I soar with the Eagles when I work with turkeys??

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05-06-2009 02:14 AM  9 years agoPost 18
ProModeler

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Sanford, FL (Orlando area)

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Just a little bit John, yes you're a wee little bit anal


John Beech
AMA # 47381
IRCHA #745

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05-06-2009 02:34 AM  9 years agoPost 19
billm

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Liberty Lake, WA

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With this hobby you have to sometimes over think things.
Could the Crystal have unpluged durring impact?

My name is Billm. Cough, and I'm a Heli Holic

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05-06-2009 03:23 AM  9 years agoPost 20
wthford

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Monticello, Illinois

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Um... well... due to the sudden total loss of control about 5 seconds before impact, I'd say it vibrated out in flight. By bad. Stupid move of the year for me. Attention to ALL detail definately needed on these things.

How can I soar with the Eagles when I work with turkeys??

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