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HomeAircraftHelicopterGasser Model RC HelicoptersOther › New Wally Cooling Fan Installed today along with the remote Kill switch
04-26-2009 02:22 AM  9 years agoPost 1
rbort

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Franklin, MA - USA

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Well I spent this morning tearing apart the Spectra and installing the above items.

Splitting the Spectra was easy, 4 screws on the bottom of the A-frames, two screws for the switch, and 2 screws for the muffler and the whole top came off.

I pulled out the old fan and shround and mounted the new fan in its place. I was very happy to see what when I pulled the motor with no spark plug the fan looks dead true with no wobble any which way - nice!

I got the shround on but it was rubbing a bit on the fan. Had to dremel on the inside a bit to clear imperfections in the shroud and after several tries I got a smooth turning fan with a tight fitting shroud around it. Put the deflector on then realized I need to clear the exhaust port as my zimmerman header would not fit without interfering with the shroud. A little dremel work there and I got a nice shape following the exhaust header done on the shroud.

Next was the remote kill switch I got from Tailgunner (thanks for sending it!) I put a Y harness on the gear channel as I have only an 8 channel TX and I'm using all 8 channels already. Then I plugged the gv-1 on/off into one end of the Y and the remote kill in the other end. With some clever mixing, I was able to make it so that the gear switch will turn on and off the gv-1 in flight. However, if I hit throttle hold and then turn off the gv-1 with the gear switch the engine will die. This way you can hit hold all day long and the engine will still run, or use the gear switch to check mixture and curves against the gv-1 while the hold is disenguaged. Works like a champ, put all the wires back nice and neat and took it out for some field trials!

On the field I fired it up and flew it as usual. She flies just about the same I can't really tell any difference. An eletrician was there with a really nice heat gun with a laser pointer built in, and I used it to check head temps the highest I can find is 210F. So then since he had this gun there I fired up the 1005, flew it around the field, came in and checked temps and what do you know, the highest temp I could find on the head is also 210F! So what does that mean? Well since I have a Bergen fan in my 1005 since back in the late 90's, we now know that the Bergen fan is equal to the Wally fan in cooling. The original 8 fin Minair fan on the 1005 was insufficient back then, and that's why I upgraded to the Bergen fan. I never had the chance to check my Spectra with the original Minair fan, but I would bet that it was probably higher before switching to the Wally fan. In any case I'm happy to know that they both run at the same temps now.

Apart from that, I did try to fool with the mixture a bit to lean the low end some, but by doing so the motor starts to race more and I guess I could redo the throttle curves and atv's but I'm not 100% sure its running that much better leaner. I think where I'm at at 1 1/4 on the low 1 1/2 on the high is good. The tail does kick a little, but it runs and flies well. Maybe if I leaned the low end down to 1 turn + as Wally suggested the tail would be smoother, but I decided to leave it be as it flies good and also when I started to lean it, the engine was a little erratic in some moments in the sky - like a little cough or burp while applying power.

On the kill switch side, it works as advertised. I did have to reduce the mix on one end as the engine did die abruptly while on the ground in throttle hold gv-1 on, but when I reduced the mix it stopped doing that. I think the mix was on the edge of the signal that the kill switch was looking for. In any case, I found it quite useful in a fun kind of way. Go up for the last auto of the flight and turn off the gv-1 before throttle hold and next thing you know its a real dead stick auto. I did that once at the end of every flight, hmmm, not bad and in a way pretty cool!

That's all for now, thanks Wally for a great product and thanks Tailgunner for the kill switch!

-=>Raja.

MA 1005 Hanson 280, 4220 flts
Spectra 27 3DMax, 3310 flts
Whiplash V1-2 Hanson 300, 1618 flts
Whiplash V2 Hanson 300, 473 flts

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04-26-2009 05:47 AM  9 years agoPost 2
Excalibur

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Interesting. . . would have been nice to know what your temps were before installing the Wally Fan. What about smoothness? The new fan is also supposed to be a harmonic balancer for the engine. Did you notice any difference at all regarding vibes or engine smoothness?

Xcal

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04-26-2009 05:53 AM  9 years agoPost 3
windy62

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USA

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How can the fan act as a harmonic balancer?

windy62

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04-26-2009 06:24 AM  9 years agoPost 4
Excalibur

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That's a very good question - but it's one of the things I have heard about this new fan. I'd like to hear an answer for that one myself. . .

Xcal

Camper Fuel: It's Not Just for Breakfast Anymore

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04-26-2009 04:27 PM  9 years agoPost 5
TaleGunner

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Deer Park WA

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I just received my fan from Wally last week and will try and install it in the next few days.

As for the switch I sent it too you but it came from Pb2theMax http://www.rckillswitch.com/

CRASH! GLUE! REPEAT!
Spectra-G, Ion X-2

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04-26-2009 04:38 PM  9 years agoPost 6
C.A.P.

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custer park IL.

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Raja's test is a little misleading as it was tested in 70deg weather, The true come when the air density becomes thinner at 85deg's and up , that when fan designs, starts to lose the abilty to push hot thinner air, they all lose it at deferent rpm's, temps and loads, try your test in steps as the temps get hotter as I did, As for performance the cooler it's outisde the better the heli engine will work, because you can run it leaner, which gives you your best performance, As it gets hotter you must richen up the engine to keep it cool, which means you will lose performance, with the Cooler Fan you cannot go over 1 1/4 on your lowneedle in hot weather because it push more air keeping you engine cooler, which means you will have good running engine, Raja even you have said engines run better in cooler air, so Buy a Heat Gun, and do some step testing, The summer heat is coming this the perfect time to start, then you will have a meanful test, And Bergen fan is the best of the stock fans I have tester, As for smoothest, Carey Shurley wrote an article in Rotory Modeler Magazine on the fan for the Spectra G (may/june 2009) read it. Wally

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04-26-2009 05:24 PM  9 years agoPost 7
C.A.P.

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custer park IL.

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"How can the fan act as a harmonic balancer?"
because the Cooler fan is heavier and spun balance tested to 14,000 rpm,and has zero to almost zero runout, The weigh helps dampen the vibs coming from the crank shaft, if it is not dead zero run out, and no one can true to zero every time, 1/4 to 1/2 of of 0.001 is great as Hanson does, the fan will not help at all after 0.0015 and you should not fly it like that period. because you will have thing start to break like sevro's, gyro's etc slowly but surly, Like in cars and tuck where the bearing system is not press fitted there will be harmonic vibrations, and that why they put harmonicer on the front and back (heavy fly wheel in back)of engines that are and are not perfectly balanced,the wheels are balance and heavy, they made heavier as the the hp power is made bigger too. Wally

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04-26-2009 05:53 PM  9 years agoPost 8
Flyon

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Auburn, California

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Here's my take...
There are two parts to a harmonic balancer, mass and an energy dissipating element. The Wally fan has more mass than the stock fan, about 39 grams of mass, the Spectra fan design already has the other part of the equation in the rubber dampeners. So by adding more mass to the fan one gets a dampening effect. The mass resists the acceleration of the vibration and the energy dissipating (rubber/clutch/fluid) element absorbs the vibrations. Note, some of this info was taken from Wikipedia.

The real question is whether this extra 39 grams will neutralize the resonance of the engine? I doubt the engineering analysis has been done to verify the neutralization of said resonance. I think most of us can produce a smooth running helicopter using tried and true methods, so whether or not this fan acts as harmonic balancer is kind of a mute point.

All I wanted was a cooler running engine, which at some point I will be able to test this theory. I need more time in a day.

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04-26-2009 07:58 PM  9 years agoPost 9
Excalibur

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Interesting info. . .

Wally, I thought the new fan was machined from aluminum, is that the case? If so, why would it be heavier, unless it has been machined thicker or taller? Is it truly 39 grams heavier than a stock Spectra-G fan, and do you feel it makes a significant impact on reducing vibration?

Your time and replies are greatly appreciated - thanks.

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04-26-2009 08:21 PM  9 years agoPost 10
TaleGunner

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Deer Park WA

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I need more time in a day.
I have some for sale

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Spectra-G, Ion X-2

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04-26-2009 09:52 PM  9 years agoPost 11
Justin Stuart (RIP)

rrMaster

Plano, Texas

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Raja, can you please post some photograps of the Wally fan/shroud installed in the Spectra highlighting the clearance (or lack there of) with the Zimmerman muffler. Also, what kill switch did you get as it seems PB sells more than one the website.

Regarding balancing and harmonic vibrations, I am concerned about the clutch alignment with the fan/engine being a source of vibrations. Since the clutch mounts into the fan via two metal prongs set into rubber, how much does it matter that the clutch and the engine are oriented exactly parallel? The Spectra manual shows the use of 2 feeler gauges on either side of the clutch. Is this absolutely critical?

It appears then that even with a perfectly balanced engine/fan, there are still 2 extremely important alignments which will affect the smoothness of the engine: #1. The fan must be mounted exactly true on the engine shaft with .001 runout. #2. The clutch must be mounted so that it is perfectly parallel to the fan. Is this correct?

The holes in my clutch doubler plates only permit a fraction of a millimeter fore/aft movement of the clutch/pinion to get the correct gear mesh in relation to the main gear, and so then I guess I need to slide the engine back and forth on the bottom plate to ensure that it is lined up as parallel as possible with the clutch using feeler gauges on each side? Any hints or suggestions here?

Finally, concerning the heat gun: I am not an engineer, but here is my understanding of the physics involved. The sensitivity of the heat gun (and accuracy) is directly dependent on the material which is being measured. Most heat guns assume an emmisivity value of 0.95% which is average, but shiny reflective things (such as aluminum) do not have an emmisivity value of 0.95% and will therefore skew the measurments depending on such things as ambient light (aka sunlight reflecting off the engine). The ideal material to measure with an infrared heat gun is something that is black because the "black body radiation" it emits follows the most predictable curve. I have read in instances where to obtain accurate serial temperature mesurements using one of these guns, either a piece of the engine was painted black, or a piece of black material was mounted to the engine. I think a much better solution would be to take the temperature measurement in the dark (i.e. in the shade) which might yield a better predictive value. That being said, maybe taking the temperature of your black muffler Raja would offer the best place to compare measurements? Although a value taken here would not directly reflect combustion chamber temperature, it would indirectly reflect engine operating temperature and would give you a way to take subsequent measurements without having to worry about the introduction of measurement artifacts.

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04-26-2009 10:08 PM  9 years agoPost 12
Flyon

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Auburn, California

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Excalibur, The fan is heavier because it's a little bit taller and, I believe, it has more fins. It is CNC'ed out of a solid piece of aluminum. If this slightly heavier fan reduces vibration some and provides more cooling, then it is worth the price. At least that was my take on it when I bought it.

An interesting note. When I received the fan I put it on my static balancer, and discovered it was not balanced statically. I thought that was odd, so I emailed Wally about the statically unbalanced fan. He called me up and was forth coming with tons of information on how static and rotational balances are different. In the end I was satisfied that he new what he was doing.

Jockstuart, The clutch\fan alignment is a no brainier with the Spectra, you'll see when you get there. Two feeler gauges or one, it really makes no difference. It doesn't get much easier than the Spectra, because the Spectra system is well engineered.

Talegunner, Is that time you have for sale on e-bay? Got to go...

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04-26-2009 10:16 PM  9 years agoPost 13
TaleGunner

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Deer Park WA

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jrockstuart
email Kent at rckillswitch or PM him ( Pb2theMax ) he makes the special for us. they work great.

Flyon not on eBay YET I'm also selling the hood canal bridge. Daddy need a new turbine
fan reduces vibration some and provides more cooling, then it is worth the price. At least that was my take on it when I bought it.
pretty much my thinking and Raja, Bill & Carey recommend them. Cooler is better

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Spectra-G, Ion X-2

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04-26-2009 10:17 PM  9 years agoPost 14
Carey Shurley

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Orlando, FL - USA

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the fan/driver alignment is important

the wally fan takes care of fan runout so you won't have to worry about that.

the easiest way to align the fan/driver connection is as follows:
  1. before you put the upper/lower frames together, align the gear mesh. Install the ratio plates using first only the bolts that go into PEM nuts and then into the frame spacers and main shaft bearing block. leave the bolts that go into the upper and lower clutch bearing blocks loose
  2. then cut a strip of regular paper and thread it through the pinion/main gear until it sticks out both sides.
  3. then loctite and tighten all the bearing block bolts and remove the paper. The gear mesh will be right
  4. before you connect the upper/lower frames, loosen the six bolts that hold the motor to the base plate and make sure the motor will move in the slotted holes. If not you might want to open them up slightly (This isn't a requirement but it makes the next steps easier)
  5. put the upper/lower frames together but don't tighten the twelve bolts that attach the ladders to the frame parts
  6. now use two feeler gauges (or something else of about .020" thickness to make sure the spacing between the driver and fan are the same in all directions. with all the bolts loose, this is pretty easy to do as there is a very small amount of clearance in each bolt hole. it adds up when they are all loose.
  7. then tighten the eight upper bolts on the frame ladders and then the four lower bolts on the frame ladders
  8. tighten the six bolts that attach the motor to the lower plate
  9. recheck the clearances to make sure nothing moved
  10. then remove each of the twelve ladder bolts one at a time, loctite and reinstall
  11. you're done
there is just enough play in all these bolt holes to get a perfect alignment.

Once you've got the motor locked in place, unless you remove from the lower plate this process gets a lot easier because you can split the upper/lower frame, put it back together and align it pretty quickly.

Here's how you check the fan/driver measurement for fore/aft, repeat in side to side:

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04-26-2009 10:27 PM  9 years agoPost 15
TaleGunner

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Deer Park WA

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That tip was perfect timming I just loctight the screws to the fan and fan hub as Wally didn't do mine and was going to install mine this afternoon

Thanks Much Carey

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Spectra-G, Ion X-2

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04-26-2009 11:09 PM  9 years agoPost 16
Justin Stuart (RIP)

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Plano, Texas

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Thanks for the info everybody.

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04-26-2009 11:49 PM  9 years agoPost 17
TaleGunner

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Deer Park WA

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This is probably a stupid question but as everyone says The WALLY fan takes care of the runout but do we still need to balance it or just install it I assume he balances them as well but mine came in two pieces, fan and hub so maybe mine was not balanced?

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Spectra-G, Ion X-2

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04-27-2009 12:39 AM  9 years agoPost 18
C.A.P.

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custer park IL.

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I do not balance every fan a hub, and do not need to. first the fan are made seperate in one cnc cut out of 6061, which means they 99% balance in a production operation, As billme ask me to do before he post on the fan last year, he thought he hear some sort of out of balance sound. Bill was right the center hole was not equal to the out side. (This why I have other people test my products), So a few days later day after redoing the cnc pragram I went to to the city to a shop that balances fan for electric motors they can balance to 14,000 rpm, as I said before you can only balance to a rpm or work range then it will come slowly out of balance, Because of the way they are made they showed no vibs to this rpm range. Not everything you have balanced will do this, like engine will have a smaller range because of all of the moving parts, I also had this done to check if the indexing plates I was using were the same for each hole of the fan and hub, meaning if I turn the fan to a deferent hole would the balance change, - No it did not, So that why I say I will replace any unit that is bad, because I will not have too. So to date I have not had trouble from the fans causing vibs, And the last bach of hub (50) turn out to be 0.004 off and I junk them, that's why my website shows out of stock until I have the cnc machines checked by Hass, So I do watch thing the best I can and will not sell junk. And can I please everyone, No, But I will try my best, Wally

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04-27-2009 12:46 AM  9 years agoPost 19
turbogti

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St. Andrew, Jamaica

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Honest reply from an honest man... can't beat that

****Predator Gasser SE - She's Ready to rumble ***

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04-27-2009 12:54 AM  9 years agoPost 20
TaleGunner

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Deer Park WA

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Thanks Wally
I am installing mine now inbetween the computer beeping at me

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Spectra-G, Ion X-2

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