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HomeRC & PowerAircraftHelicopterFlybarless Rotor Head SystemsOther › Questions for Vibe50 VBar 4.0 owners
04-25-2009 04:14 AM  9 years agoPost 1
puma1824

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Maryland, USA

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I'm trying to determine the best hardware / software config for my Vibe50 / Vbar 4.0

What do you have for the following. Please include related pitch:

Common Collective: 65 (+/- 12 pitch)
Cyclic Gain: 100 (+/- 13 deg cyclic)
Cyclic Ring: 68
Servo Center to ball: 13.5mm

I tried switching to 10mm on the servo to give me a CC 85 with +/- 12. Unfortunately, one of the links on the elevator servo binds with this setting.

Please let me know what you're running.

thanks in advance

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04-25-2009 05:20 AM  9 years agoPost 2
SandyEM16

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Enid, OK

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I tried switching to 10mm on the servo to give me a CC 85 with +/- 12. Unfortunately, one of the links on the elevator servo binds with this setting
I am glad you brought this up, Puma

Is push-pull arrangement really necessary? It would be a whole lot simpler to just use one push rod from the servo wheel to the lever using 10mm center to ball distance.. I seem to remember Ulrich in the vstabi forum suggesting doing away with "PP" when using VBar in order to get the proper mechanics. The servos we use today should be beefy enough to handle it..

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04-25-2009 12:45 PM  9 years agoPost 3
Heliplanet.de

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Aidlingen, near Stuttgart, Germany

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Hello puma,

please do some measurings:

set common collective to 80 and be sure that your mid and travels mathc with the live in setup mode (switch to setup and keep it there).

Now be sure you have 0deg at centered sticks.

Give full collective and tell me the blade angles.

Then mesure the distance between mid ball link outer swash ring and mid main shaft (in mm) and also the same at the inner swash balls.

Tell me this values.

After this i'll be back with some comments on you geometry and tips.

MIkado VBar - what else ;-)

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04-25-2009 01:05 PM  9 years agoPost 4
puma1824

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Maryland, USA

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Hello puma,

please do some measurings:

set common collective to 80 and be sure that your mid and travels mathc with the live in setup mode (switch to setup and keep it there).

Now be sure you have 0deg at centered sticks.

Give full collective and tell me the blade angles.

Then mesure the distance between mid ball link outer swash ring and mid main shaft (in mm) and also the same at the inner swash balls.

Tell me this values.

After this i'll be back with some comments on you geometry and tips.
I believe you're working with a friend of mine with this Here's what I sent him / you originally:

Servo Arm Center to Ball: 13.5mm

Bell Crank Short: 13.5mm
Bell Crank Short: 23mm

Swash Center to Inner Ring: 20.5mm
Swash Center to Outer Ring: 38mm

Collective Common @ 65 (Preset): +/- 12
Collective Common @ 80 : +/- 15

Thanks!

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04-25-2009 09:51 PM  9 years agoPost 5
Heliplanet.de

rrApprentice

Aidlingen, near Stuttgart, Germany

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OK, you got some geometrical problems caused by the integrated PP ratio.

The collective at 80 should be 9...13 deg. not more.

With your measures posted above i calculated a cyclic gain about 55...60. Note that a cyclic gain should be adjusted from 70...110.

So this geometry seems to need some work.

- shorten servo arms (better cyclic and collective)
- more distance in blade grip balls (better cyclic and collective)

For collective only you can use shorter swash linkage balls at the inner ring.

But the best of all ... remove that PP ratio!

MIkado VBar - what else ;-)

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04-25-2009 10:48 PM  9 years agoPost 6
tchavei

rrProfessor

Portugal

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Hi. Im currently traveling so Im writing this from my HTC and I dont have my bird or settings at hand BUT I remember that:

collective at 85 is 13, tail servo horn is at 17mm.

Im using a 3DX head and every linkage below the swash is exacly like it was before going flybarless. If you want my setup file (which is working perfectly for me) then go over http://www.vstabi.de and download it from the setup V4 section located in the forum.

I should arrive home tomorrow night so I can help further if you need.

regards

tony


--------------------
"Perfection and patience usually walk side by side..."

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04-26-2009 07:40 AM  9 years agoPost 7
Heliplanet.de

rrApprentice

Aidlingen, near Stuttgart, Germany

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Hello Tony,
collective at 85 is 13, tail servo horn is at 17mm.
That is for your servos correct. Unfortunatelly you may get a bit different servo throw with different Servo manufacturers also. It won't be much, but 0-2 degrees can be

In this case i try to develop a tool to have a look at the complete "stick to blade" process.

MIkado VBar - what else ;-)

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04-26-2009 10:40 AM  9 years agoPost 8
tchavei

rrProfessor

Portugal

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Yes. I'm using 9351s with 13.5mm ball distance from center. I believe the diferences come mostly from the head one uses, especially the diference in distance from the blade pitch links.

tony


--------------------
"Perfection and patience usually walk side by side..."

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04-26-2009 12:25 PM  9 years agoPost 9
puma1824

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Maryland, USA

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FYI I'm using:

Cyclic Servos: Futaba BLS451
Head Conversion: Mikado (Plastic Blade grips)

Actually here's the complete config:

Vibe 50 Setup:

Cyclic Servos: BLS 451 @ 6v
Tail Servo: BLS 251 @ 5v
Main Blades: VBlades TST 600mm
Tail Blades: Radix 92mm
Governor: Mulitgov Pro
Regulator: Perfect Regulator CCPM Adjustable Reg
Throttle Servo: 9257 @ 5v
Vbar: Black Sensor v4.0
Battery: Outrage 2500mAH
Motor: YS50
Pipe: Hitori Bobby Watts
Dampening: Hyperings
RX: Futaba R608FS
Head Conversion: Mikado Kit (Plastic Grips)
Misc: SwitchGlo

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05-26-2009 08:17 PM  9 years agoPost 10
puma1824

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Maryland, USA

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But the best of all ... remove that PP ratio!
What is PP ratio?

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05-26-2009 08:21 PM  9 years agoPost 11
tchavei

rrProfessor

Portugal

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He's probably referring not to the PP ratio itself but to the T lever ratio. If you look at a 600N or even a Vibe, you will notice that the T arms are shorter on the side that connects via PP to the servo than the middle arm on the other. This is made to increase the throw (movement) of the swashplate so one gets more pitch on traditional systems. This ratio can, in theory, reduce the Vbar effectiveness. The 3Dx head however has this into account and the ratio gets balanced out with the grip arm distance. Personally, removing the PP and the T lever seems a too big modification to be done on the vibe 50. I assure you it works great with the stock linkage IF you respect the correct grip arm distances

Tony


--------------------
"Perfection and patience usually walk side by side..."

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05-26-2009 08:24 PM  9 years agoPost 12
puma1824

rrVeteran

Maryland, USA

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The 3Dx head however has this into account and the ratio gets balanced out with the grip arm distance.
What is the grip arm distance on the 3Dx head?

Thanks!

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05-26-2009 08:25 PM  9 years agoPost 13
tchavei

rrProfessor

Portugal

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Gimme 5 minutes

Tony


--------------------
"Perfection and patience usually walk side by side..."

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05-26-2009 08:35 PM  9 years agoPost 14
tchaveirrProfessor - Portugal - My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Back

Hope that helps

Tony


--------------------
"Perfection and patience usually walk side by side..."

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05-27-2009 05:22 AM  9 years agoPost 15
SandyEM16

rrApprentice

Enid, OK

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Tony, did you get some special 3dx blade holder arms? My ball to ball distance is 61.4mm..

Sandy

"The enemy of good is better"

Logo 600SE
TDR 1 and 2

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05-27-2009 12:12 PM  9 years agoPost 16
tchavei

rrProfessor

Portugal

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no... my head is V1 though and I measured it with a digital caliper... center ball to center ball (not inner distance but from ball center)

Tony


--------------------
"Perfection and patience usually walk side by side..."

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05-27-2009 03:41 PM  9 years agoPost 17
SandyEM16

rrApprentice

Enid, OK

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I guess the v 1.5 head has changed the distance between the balls because I still get 61.4mm and the C of 65 gives 11+/- degrees of pitch.. My servo centers to balls are 13.7mm. If I need to be in the C range of 70 to 100, I need to make some changes.. The simplest would be to remove the spacers on the inner swash ring balls.. Anybody tried that?

Sandy

Logo 600SE
TDR 1 and 2

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05-27-2009 04:30 PM  9 years agoPost 18
tchavei

rrProfessor

Portugal

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I highly doubt it has changed. Changing design would have cost thousands to 3Dx just to reprogram his machines. I'm sure he would mention it. Anyway, in V1.5 he did include metal arms which weren't included in V1.

I'm going to drop him a msg about this.

Tony


--------------------
"Perfection and patience usually walk side by side..."

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05-27-2009 11:07 PM  9 years agoPost 19
SandyEM16

rrApprentice

Enid, OK

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That would be interesting to know for sure.. Thanks

Logo 600SE
TDR 1 and 2

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05-27-2009 11:10 PM  9 years agoPost 20
tchavei

rrProfessor

Portugal

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I checked with 3Dx. The exact distance (as by CAD drawing) is 61.7mm

I think I need to check my caliper

Tony


--------------------
"Perfection and patience usually walk side by side..."

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HomeRC & PowerAircraftHelicopterFlybarless Rotor Head SystemsOther › Questions for Vibe50 VBar 4.0 owners
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