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Home✈️Aircraft🚁Helicoptere-Elec-Helicopters New or Limited ActivityNext-D › Question about Heading Hold
04-24-2009 04:30 AM  10 years ago
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JSX

rrApprentice

France

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Question about Heading Hold
Hi all : )

I've got a question about HH:

Is a gyro supposed to perfectly lock the tail on big pitch values like +12° climbouts?

My setup is -10/14T/350's - 100% flat curve - +/-12 - TP40A - Outrage 4S 25C - Mini-G / DS520. It's very powerful.

Mini-G is set with Model A preset, and gain is 70 % (50% to 100%).

Whatever my gain setting, my heli on 12° climbouts turn on left about perhaps 5°.

I just need to know if it's a natural reaction, and if I just need to compensate with rudder sitck on manoeuvers when they use lot of pitch.

Thanks.

Jsx
~¤°Rave~4S/350¤Trex250°¤~
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04-24-2009 05:32 AM  10 years ago
RayoVac

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IF you pound the collective to hard, bogging the head... you stand the chance of loosing tail authority. You will get some spin. I am pretty sure the Gyro can't do much to overcome that phenomena.

More knowledgeable folks hopefully will chime in. Possibly a higher head speed could help (what are you running now?)
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04-24-2009 02:25 PM  10 years ago
JSX

rrApprentice

France

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Hi : )
I don't make measures on my HS, but it's fast, certainly 3300~3400 rpm.
I think HS just bog like you have suggested. It's not a big problem at all, but I will try to find how to minimize this effect to learn easier.
I'll try my Radix 59's, and perhaps 13T pignon with higher timing to have more torque.
Jsx
~¤°Rave~4S/350¤Trex250°¤~
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04-24-2009 05:01 PM  10 years ago
inkspot1967

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Cranston Ri

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your gain maybe to low, turn the gain as high as it can go til it wags then go down 5 points

im running the same setup 10-14t-350's 100% flatline
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04-24-2009 06:13 PM  10 years ago
JSX

rrApprentice

France

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Hi ; )
I can go to 100% gain without really big wag, only on tail stops. Higher gain settings don't change anything. I go on the field now and will try Radix 59's.
Jsx
~¤°Rave~4S/350¤Trex250°¤~
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04-24-2009 06:18 PM  10 years ago
inkspot1967

rrProfessor

Cranston Ri

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you dont have to go to 100 just keep going up 5 points til it wags in a hover then drop down some til it stops im at 78% on mine

im running the plastic blades
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04-24-2009 06:20 PM  10 years ago
JSX

rrApprentice

France

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And on full pitch your tail is perfectly locked?~¤°Rave~4S/350¤Trex250°¤~
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04-24-2009 06:23 PM  10 years ago
JSX

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France

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I just checked my tail and there is a little lateral slope on the tail axis, need to add a washer. Can it be the reason?~¤°Rave~4S/350¤Trex250°¤~
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04-24-2009 06:28 PM  10 years ago
inkspot1967

rrProfessor

Cranston Ri

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mine holds solid with 14deg pitch climbs.
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04-24-2009 06:31 PM  10 years ago
Auto180_OCMA

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Futaba City Z (Mobara)

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Only 14
Try mine with 15
AMA 334000
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04-24-2009 06:33 PM  10 years ago
inkspot1967

rrProfessor

Cranston Ri

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15deg of pitch nice.

where is there play?
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04-24-2009 07:24 PM  10 years ago
Auto180_OCMA

rrApprentice

Futaba City Z (Mobara)

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No Rock Solid
No Play
AMA 334000
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04-24-2009 07:26 PM  10 years ago
inkspot1967

rrProfessor

Cranston Ri

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i meant that for jsx
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04-26-2009 01:51 PM  10 years ago
JSX

rrApprentice

France

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Hi : )
I increased my gain from 70% to 80% and it's really better, but not yet perfect. I add a washer on the tail axis to avoid any slop, and recheck all meshs.
My T-hub is slightly bent, I can see this on the head stop button if I turn the rotor with hand. It seems that there are no particular problems during flights, nor perceptible vibrations. Can this generate head locking very slightly reduced performance?
Another problem I discover is a tail cage ball bearing which is slightly damaged. Can it be the cause?
Everything is ok on the tail system, and very free from servo to blade grips.
I need to buy flange bearings and T-hub.

Yesterday, I increased my pitch curve to +/-14°!!!! Wow it's crazy, incredebly powerful. And I increased my cyclics too on 71 mm stock paddles, from 7° to 10°!! They are full alive now : )
I made my first inverted climbout full -14°, a long inverted hovering of perhaps 20 seconds, my first small inverted forward on perhaps 30 meters, and my first long tictoc (~X10) at a constant altitude : ))))
Very very good day for me : ))
Jsx
~¤°Rave~4S/350¤Trex250°¤~
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04-26-2009 06:52 PM  10 years ago
Sky Dancer

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Bryan, Texas

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My T-hub is slightly bent, I can see this on the head stop button if I turn the rotor with hand.
Any vibration from bent parts (or loose parts) can play a part in how well a gyro will perform.

I would change out your main rotor hub and probably the main shaft also to get no movement in the head button when hand spinning the head without main blades.

I usually run a gain high enough that it's just below hunting and if the tail ever does begin hunting, that's the time I begin looking for problems in the mechanics.

With the Mini G you should not get much movement in the model on hard climbouts unless there is a mechanical problem or your gain is just too low.

Don C
Keep up your rotor speed !
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04-26-2009 08:01 PM  10 years ago
JSX

rrApprentice

France

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Hi : )
I need to buy parts which are damaged, there are no doubts about this.
But the fact is there was this little drift on climbouts before the T-hub was bent.
Perhaps I need to say again that it's not a constant drift, tail turns a little bit, perhaps 3~5°, at the begining of the fast climbout, during perhaps firsts ~50 cm, then the heli retrieves its original orientation and holds perfectly during all the climbout. Holds perfectly on pitch (pumping) values under +/- 10° approximatively.
I think more about a short motor bog which causes the tail HS to reduce an instant, which causes the little drift.
If I can I'll ask a friend to use a cam, to show you this phenomen on a video.
Jsx
~¤°Rave~4S/350¤Trex250°¤~
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04-26-2009 10:02 PM  10 years ago
Sky Dancer

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Bryan, Texas

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If you're bogging the motor you could have problems with tail authority and control.

Don C
Keep up your rotor speed !
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04-27-2009 12:57 AM  10 years ago
JSX

rrApprentice

France

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How can I do to avoid these bogs? Is it a setup problem, perhaps batteries? I run 14T on -10/350'sand Outrage 25C. Or is it because I move my pitch stick too quickly?
Thanks for help : )
Jsx
~¤°Rave~4S/350¤Trex250°¤~
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04-27-2009 04:45 AM  10 years ago
Sky Dancer

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Bryan, Texas

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You can always lower your total collective pitch (14 degrees is more than most of us ever need) until the bogging is reduced or just be gentle as you apply pitch instead of hard (and maybe extended) collective commands (collective management).

If you're using lots of collective and cyclic at the same time that too can cause some bogging.

By the way, what parameters do you have your ESC set for?

Don C
Keep up your rotor speed !
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04-27-2009 05:37 AM  10 years ago
JSX

rrApprentice

France

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Thanks for these info.
On my TP40A settings are:

Battery Type: LI-XX
Cut Off Type: Soft Cut
Governor Mode: Off
Cut Off Voltage: Middle
Start Mode: Very Soft
Timing Mode: Middle >> 15
Brake: Off
PWM Frequency: Low

100% flat thro curve

Everything is good?

Jsx
~¤°Rave~4S/350¤Trex250°¤~
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