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HomeAircraftHelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › Working on it but need advise.
04-23-2009 09:53 PM  9 years agoPost 1
Frank Bostwick

rrElite Veteran

Cincinnati Ohio

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Century Raven, Hyper 50, ah...nice looking 50 size pipe, Wildcat15%, woodies. I also fly a Hawk with an OS37, tuned great, starts fine, shuts of with the trim perfect. Just an totally reliable motor and I guess I have it tuned pretty dang good, idles totally solid, TH set at 4%, never stalls, blah blah.

The Raven has all new bearings in the air frame. The hyper was bought used but I replaced the bearings and it looked to be in very good condition. This motor starts differently than my 37 and Im unsure if it tuning or just different. Throttle set up is just like I do with the 37. On that motor (37),full up and the carb is open all the way, trim and stick centered and it starts fine even cold off the shelf. Trim and stick full down and it cuts. I did the same mechanical set up on the Hyper but, 1st start needs full trim up (stick down) and it takes forever. It starts but I need to keep the trim up to walk to the line. 1st run up takes some time, but it runs up. After the 1st flight, I still need to trim up pretty far but it starts fine. It does seem to need a higher idle speed.

All in all after it warms up, it idles fine, spins up as expected (pretty fast, no sputtering or hesitation) and will idle with e trim centered. Runs great as a matter of fact.....

BUT soon as I pull full collective, the head speed starts decaying and continues to decay until the head is unloaded. Will decay until tail authority is effected. Even in a straight pull up gently. In any and every full collective move no matter how gently, it bogs.

No the head block is not contacting the wash out. All fuel lines are new. tuned for 6 sec thumb test, once warm it idles and transitions fine. Runs Great in every condition except full throttle.

RIP ROMAN

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04-23-2009 10:02 PM  9 years agoPost 2
VooDooX

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San Francisco Bay Area CA, US (San Mateo)

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sounds like its too rich on high needle too lean on low needle but ill let people with hypers talk thats just what it sounds like to me needs some tuning

Velocity 50 "99.9999999999999% of an atom is empty space." also 01001000 01001001

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04-23-2009 10:06 PM  9 years agoPost 3
holzback

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noblesville IN United States

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well mabey it just needs to warm up. you could lean out the low end and if it dose not idel to lean, once it warms up, just leave it. i noticed mine would hydro lock, would not spool up quick, but once i got picky with the low end it would spool up very fast even when cold. try to lean out the low end until the rpms rise, then pump the throttle. start to richen it back up a little after you pump the throttle until you get the sputter, then lean it back just before that sputter point.

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04-23-2009 10:09 PM  9 years agoPost 4
holzback

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noblesville IN United States

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sounds like its too rich on high needle too lean on low needle but ill let people with hypers talk thats just what it sounds like to me needs some tuning
when it sputters like that it is the low end. there is a transition point where it is more high needle, but that is at higher throttle settings. when you have to wait on it to spool it is the low end.

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04-23-2009 10:12 PM  9 years agoPost 5
oldfart

rrProfessor

Vancouver, Canada

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I am assuming that you are saying it bogs as you climb out from the hover?

You have told us everything about the power source (motor related items) but nothing about what is applying the load to that power source. So it is relatively impossible to diagnose properly.

In your straight up climb out (from what you say I am assuming the throttle barrel opens completely) what is the total amount of collective pitch you have set into the system and what head speed are you trying to maintain without bogging? (In other words how much load are you expecting your power system to take before loosing rpm.)

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04-23-2009 10:14 PM  9 years agoPost 6
Hellsiege

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Colorado Springs, CO

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Isn't the pinch test supposed to be 3 seconds till it speeds up on the low end? I have two of these 50's and I'm just learning engine tuning myself so excuse me if I'm way off.

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04-23-2009 10:55 PM  9 years agoPost 7
JAGNZ

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Auckland, New Zealand

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Yes, how long until it leans at idle using the pinch test? The low end sounds off to me. The high end sounds lean too, it sounds like it is fuel starved on climb out. Of course a rich condition will do the same thing but I can't hear the engine to tell you.

Find someone with a Hyper near you to help. I can tune one by ear in about 2 minutes now, I've had that many of them. GREAT engine and once it's tuned right it will blow you away.


Jason Greenwood

www.3dheli.co.nz

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04-23-2009 10:58 PM  9 years agoPost 8
Frank Bostwick

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Cincinnati Ohio

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Thanks for the input, in response
I have been gradually leaning the low needle.
Have not done the pinch test.
If in hover I punch it, it starts out great, then in about 2-3 secs it starts loosing speed.
OF, I am running the gray gear on a 14T pinion, I forget the ratio (8.5 I think?). With full ATVs (100, on a DX7) I have +- 11 degrees pitch. I currently have my pitch curve high point reduced to 90%. Throttle curve is 100, 85, 55, 85, 100 (started at 100, 75, 45, 75, 100). If I pump the collective in about 2 sec intervals, no bogging is evident, head keeps up fine. If in hover, I punch it in about 3-4 sec the HS starts degrading pretty bad. If in fast or slow FF and I quickly or gradually add collective, it bogs and continues to bog.

After 1st flight the motor runs very well EXCEPT at full collective.

RIP ROMAN

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04-23-2009 11:05 PM  9 years agoPost 9
Frank Bostwick

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Cincinnati Ohio

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Has good smoke. Ill say this though. This factoid complicates things a bit. Im switching to 15% (like getting 1 free gal. per case). I have my 37 tuned rock solid (on 30%). The 50 on 15% has a lot less gunk to wipe down than my 37 did on 30% (Hawk is down now and I have not run it on 15% yet). I do think this is a tuning issue. I have been leaning the low end, now at about 1:30-2:00, pretty lean from center??

Back plate test, at 6secs my finger is getting pretty dang hot....

After 1st flight, trim centered, I can land check temp, and scroll up with very good transition. Does not stall at low stick, center trim....

RIP ROMAN

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04-23-2009 11:10 PM  9 years agoPost 10
JAGNZ

rrProfessor

Auckland, New Zealand

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You MUST do the pinch test to get the low end needle right. It controls about 70-80% of the fuel flow on a Hyper. I would start there regardless of fuel. She's starving when being pushed IMO...


Jason Greenwood

www.3dheli.co.nz

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04-23-2009 11:20 PM  9 years agoPost 11
Frank Bostwick

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Cincinnati Ohio

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Sure feels/sounds like its starving.
So for clarity
Specs on the pinch test? Please

RIP ROMAN

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04-23-2009 11:25 PM  9 years agoPost 12
JAGNZ

rrProfessor

Auckland, New Zealand

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At idle, pinch the fuel line going to the carb. It should take 3-4 seconds before it starts to lean and speed up. If not, it's lean. If it takes 5-6 seconds it's too rich. Once you get that right then the top end is easy.


Jason Greenwood

www.3dheli.co.nz

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04-23-2009 11:56 PM  9 years agoPost 13
Frank Bostwick

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Cincinnati Ohio

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Ok Ill start there, thanks.

RIP ROMAN

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04-24-2009 12:23 AM  9 years agoPost 14
JAGNZ

rrProfessor

Auckland, New Zealand

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Happy to help.


Jason Greenwood

www.3dheli.co.nz

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04-24-2009 12:39 AM  9 years agoPost 15
predatorman

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Falkland Islands

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3 to 4 seconds MAX...for the pinch test....no more than that.

Nice looking bird the Raven...I used to have a Hawk Sport...great little heli.

Quality takes........time!

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04-24-2009 07:35 PM  9 years agoPost 16
oldfart

rrProfessor

Vancouver, Canada

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OF, I am running the gray gear on a 14T pinion, I forget the ratio (8.5 I think?). With full ATVs (100, on a DX7) I have +- 11 degrees pitch.
The OS Hyper should be able to pull 11 degrees at a comfortable 1900 or so head speed. So if yours is sagging after 2 or 3 seconds of climb I would guess that your top needle is set too lean.

I further suspect this to be the case, as that would also require your idle/hover screw to be set too rich in order to keep it idling and would also require the barrel to be more open then normal in idle (to bring in the amount of air required to mix with all the fuel that is entering.)

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04-24-2009 07:52 PM  9 years agoPost 17
Raffy

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Chicago, Illinois

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How I set the low end needle - Start heli. Let it idle. Turn low end needle ccw slowly. Engine will start to die (too rich). Now lean the heli turning needle cw until you get a consistent idle. Kill engine. Start heli again. If it start consistently, low end is good to go. If not, lean low end just a tad until heli start and idle consistently.

Setting low end this way let you know the needle is just past the rich end.

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