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04-23-2009 11:30 AM  10 years ago
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Rancho

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Rancho Cucamonga, CA

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Benefit of FBL
I want to try FBL on my 700. What are the benefits of FBL over regular FB.

Thank you,
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04-23-2009 12:29 PM  10 years ago
Ben-T-Spindle

rrProfessor

Central Illinois

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The main thing that I noticed is that the helicopter has more power and the flights are longer. In the air it really sounds like it’s not working as hard.

3D is about the same but it takes some effort to get it setup for good 3D. Flybarless really puts a lot of demand on the servos so you will need good high performance servos for hard 3D flying. Once you get it set up I think that 3D is a little easier to fly – it flies differently so you will need to practice for a while.

... BTS
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04-23-2009 02:30 PM  10 years ago
hams

rrApprentice

Ohio

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ben is right. the big thing is the heli stays where you put it. much more accurate. and with the new 4.0 vbar it only takes 2 or 3 flights to have a perfect flying heli.
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04-24-2009 02:58 AM  10 years ago
Cul-tech

rrApprentice

Naperville, IL

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Once you get all that Flybar junk out of the way you can chop the head and bring the disk closer to the the mainframe. This brings your center of gravity closer to the disk.

If you look at the purpose built flybarless heads you will see how much lower they are.

Also when you fold the blades back and clip them to the boom for transport you don't have half the flybar and one paddle sticking out catching on everything in the back of your car!

There are lots of reasons but these are two you don't hear of often.

Mike
I Enjoy the Challenges of Rotary Flight....
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04-24-2009 11:16 AM  10 years ago
Ben-T-Spindle

rrProfessor

Central Illinois

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Once you get all that Flybar junk out of the way you can chop the head and bring the disk closer to the the mainframe. This brings your center of gravity closer to the disk.
Is that really a good idea? I have always worried about getting a boom strike so I try to get it in the stock position.

Is there some general rule for determining the minimum distance between the boom and the blades? I have a 600 size helicopter.

... BTS
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04-24-2009 05:55 PM  10 years ago
Justin Stuart (RIP)

rrMaster

Plano, Texas

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Flybarless also seems to add a lot of stability in the wind. With the V-bar 4.0 set up correctly, even a 450 sized heli is rock solid.

My favorite thing, however, is the fact that when you crash, there are a lot fewer head pieces to replace. Also when you crash, there are only a couple of links that you have to fix. Much less maintenance than the flybar.

Only downside to the flybarless setup (other than cost) is the fact that going flybarless makes your CCPM servos burn out a lot faster because they have to work a lot harder.
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04-24-2009 06:14 PM  10 years ago
Ben-T-Spindle

rrProfessor

Central Illinois

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Only downside to the flybarless setup (other than cost) is the fact that going flybarless makes your CCPM servos burn out a lot faster because they have to work a lot harder.
Brushless motor servos is the solution to that problem. Flybarless is quickly making those old technology servos with bushed motors obsolete. Has anyone heard when the JR and Hitec brushless motor servos will be available in the US?

... BTS
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04-24-2009 06:17 PM  10 years ago
Justin Stuart (RIP)

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Plano, Texas

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My JR DS8717s are not brushless? My HS-5065MGs are not brushless?

Is brushless not the same thing as coreless? Maybe I've been buying the wrong servos.
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04-24-2009 07:06 PM  10 years ago
Jag72

rrProfessor

South of Boston

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servos
Any Decent servo is fine for flybarless...you don't need to get killer servos...

just about any decent digital is fine..

I use a lot of bls 451's or Futaba 9451/9452's..

as well as 8717's..
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04-24-2009 07:41 PM  10 years ago
Ben-T-Spindle

rrProfessor

Central Illinois

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Corless servo motors are 25 year old technology. Brushless servos were just introduced a couple of years ago.

Hear is a list of the Futaba Brushless servo lineup http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bi...EARCH=BRUSHLESS

Like any new technology they are expensive but when there gets more competation the price should go down. From what I have been reading brushless motors are less expensive that corless motors so we should see some good prices in a couple of years.

Corless servos are excellent it’s just that the brushes are going to get used faster with a flybarless setup so you should track servo use. I am converting to BLS451 as soon as I get the money. I have one converted and the other later this year.

... BTS
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04-27-2009 02:22 AM  10 years ago
kogibankole

rrKey Veteran

albuquerque/ibadan

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i thought coreless motors were brushless...if im not blade bogging youll find me pack puffing
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04-27-2009 11:20 AM  10 years ago
Ben-T-Spindle

rrProfessor

Central Illinois

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i thought coreless motors were brushless...
No, coreless motors have brushes. The advantage of coreless is that they have a lower inertia armature. Brushless servos use computer disk drives technology.

I would think that most manufactures will probably have a line of brushless servos soon so if you can hold off you the prices should go down and you will get a much better servo. Right now Futaba has a monopoly on the high technology servo market.

... BTS
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04-27-2009 02:00 PM  10 years ago
kogibankole

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albuquerque/ibadan

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thanks, so it seems that coreless motors have more punch, because the baddest futaba brushless doesnt even come close to an 87XX series of JR which is corelessif im not blade bogging youll find me pack puffing
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04-27-2009 03:51 PM  10 years ago
Ben-T-Spindle

rrProfessor

Central Illinois

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thanks, so it seems that coreless motors have more punch, because the baddest futaba brushless doesnt even come close to an 87XX series of JR which is coreless
You are missing the point. Of course the old technology will work we have been using it for many years. I was just trying to provide some information for those who might be aware that there is a new technology available and they might want to give it a try. For flybarless I think that the improved durability and efficiency of brushless servos might be worth considering.

... BTS
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04-27-2009 05:32 PM  10 years ago
Justin Stuart (RIP)

rrMaster

Plano, Texas

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So a brushless motor is an "outrunner" type motor with a stationary stator and a moving magnet case (like we are using on our electric helicopters), while a coreless motor is a moderinzed version of the traditional electric motor with a stationary magnet and a moving armature in the center? Can anyone verify this?

It has been my experience that the "outrunner" motor has really revolutionized the RC hobby. The efficiency that I get with outrunner motors as compared to the old, brushed motors is phenomenal. Sure, they take a more complicated ESC (compared to the old on/off switch), but they run better because there are no brushes rubbing on the armature.

I didn't realize my $130 JR DS8717 servos used traditional brushed motors inside them. For flybarless, it seems you really need high speed servos to overcome the fact that the computer/servos are doing all of the correction that the flybar would traditionally do.

I think my DS8717s on cyclic are 0.09sec/60 degrees and 160oz torque which is almost on par with a good gyro servo. What speed are the Futaba brushless?
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04-27-2009 07:16 PM  10 years ago
Ben-T-Spindle

rrProfessor

Central Illinois

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So a brushless motor is an "outrunner" type motor with a stationary stator and a moving magnet case (like we are using on our electric helicopters), while a coreless motor is a moderinzed version of the traditional electric motor with a stationary magnet and a moving armature in the center? Can anyone verify this?
I have heard that are stepper motors like are used in computer hard drives for controlling head movement. That keeps the inertia very low. Exactly what you need for your disk drive head or our RC servo. It’s completely different technology than is use for RC propulsion.

There is probably a good technical article somewhere. If some one finds one please post the link.

... BTS
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05-04-2009 11:41 PM  10 years ago
cmulder

rrNovice

cork city , ireland

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brushless servo motors
the electric motors used in the brushless servo's are "inruners" so they have the magnet on the output axle.
The coils / electromagnets are mounted around the center magnet wich has a advantage that cooling is eazier (the winding tutch the motor case wich is inside a heatsink that forms the center part of the servo.

the advantage is the same as compairing brushed and "brushless" motors used to power our models ; less losses and longer lasting.

btw i resent the name "brushless" the correct name for this kind of motors is 3 fase.
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05-05-2009 12:12 AM  10 years ago
Justin Stuart (RIP)

rrMaster

Plano, Texas

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i resent the name "brushless" the correct name for this kind of motors is 3 fase.
A three phase DC motor is brushless, so why do you not like this term?
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05-05-2009 01:17 AM  10 years ago
tchavei

rrProfessor

Portugal

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Can somebody change the topic to "Servo technology in 2009"? This thread has nothing to do with the benefits of FBL anymore.

Tony

--------------------
"Perfection and patience usually walk side by side..."
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05-05-2009 02:06 AM  10 years ago
Justin Stuart (RIP)

rrMaster

Plano, Texas

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I am finding this thread interesting even if it is a little off topic.Avant RC
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