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HomeAircraftHelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › Multiple Forward Flips
04-23-2009 12:44 AM  9 years agoPost 1
Rockohaulic

rrElite Veteran

Canyon Country, CA, USA, 3rd Rock from the Sun

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So the pros can do multiple forward flips down on the deck, in exactly the same spot, and the heli looks like it is turning in it's own diameter.

I can do multiple forward flips on the sim, and if/when I get the timing & collective perfect, I can sit there and knock them out one after the other after the other.

But with the real bird the thing I have the most problem with is the nose. After about 3 or 4 flips, the nose has turned to the right by 45 degrees to as much as 90 degrees when I stop the maneuver.

What the heck am I doing wrong?

Am I adding rudder input?

Aileron input?

Why isn't it turning to the right on the sim if it is with the real thing?

Should I add more expo to keep small stick inputs from turning it to the right?

Saturday morning I flew my helicopter in my pajamas
How it got in my pajamas I'll never know

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04-23-2009 12:45 AM  9 years agoPost 2
Dood

rrProfessor

Wescanson

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Its either you or the helicopter.
Why isn't it turning to the right on the sim if it is with the real thing?
Then it's probably the helicopter.

  ▲
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04-23-2009 12:52 AM  9 years agoPost 3
Ghostrider

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San Diego, CA

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Turning the expo up on the tail will help but ultimately, you have to make minor stick adjustments with every flip.

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04-23-2009 12:54 AM  9 years agoPost 4
Rockohaulic

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Canyon Country, CA, USA, 3rd Rock from the Sun

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Then it's probably the helicopter.
I was wondering that, but it happens with my Trex500, my 600N, and my 700N. All with Solid-G gyros and set up nicely.

I don't have enough time on my Synergy N9 to see if it does it too. I'm betting it will.

So I still think it must be me...

But not sure what..............................

Saturday morning I flew my helicopter in my pajamas
How it got in my pajamas I'll never know

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04-23-2009 12:55 AM  9 years agoPost 5
Rockohaulic

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Canyon Country, CA, USA, 3rd Rock from the Sun

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you have to make minor stick adjustments with every flip.
Hey bud - But which stick in this case...............

Saturday morning I flew my helicopter in my pajamas
How it got in my pajamas I'll never know

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04-23-2009 12:57 AM  9 years agoPost 6
Ghostrider

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San Diego, CA

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Rudder and cyclic depending on the bird or setup.

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04-23-2009 01:12 AM  9 years agoPost 7
rexxigpilot

rrProfessor

Florida

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Do you use thumb or pinch method on the sticks? I have seen the right turn problem with thumbers since the thumb naturally moves in an arc that can push rudder right at midstick.

Also, how stiff are the sticks on your transmitter? I keep mine at low spring tension while my sim sticks (Realflight 3.5) are stiffer. This tends to mask poor precision that doesn't show on the sim but shows up in real flying for me.

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04-23-2009 02:19 AM  9 years agoPost 8
JJMAN (RIP)

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Chesapeake, Virginia - USA

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If you want to do accurate continuous flips, you will need to learn to make minor adjustments while its flipping or it will tend to wonder unless you have some forward or backward momentum.

JAY HIGGS

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04-23-2009 02:31 AM  9 years agoPost 9
holzback

rrKey Veteran

noblesville IN United States

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i have wondered this, with 120 or 140 ccpm if one servo is a bit weaker than the others it will always pull. people like me who have had servos through thick and thin may have your prob. im not saying this is your prob, but mabey that is why i have had to work hard at keeping it straight. so a raptor is coming and i want to see how it works with the same servos.

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04-23-2009 02:34 AM  9 years agoPost 10
holzback

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noblesville IN United States

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this also is where a near perfect set up is needed.

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04-23-2009 04:43 AM  9 years agoPost 11
Melon

rrApprentice

California

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If you are having issues with the nose pointing twords you, just give a little right rudder to compensate, if the nose is pointing away from you then add a little left rudder.
It took me a while before i could figure out that the tail plays a big roll in manuevers, your not alone.

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04-23-2009 11:44 AM  9 years agoPost 12
Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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Try adding more cyclic expo, I run about 20%.

60% of the time, it works every time!

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04-23-2009 12:03 PM  9 years agoPost 13
LONEWOLF2440

rrElite Veteran

MYRTLE BEACH S.C

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Its difenatly hard. Heli set up good and perfect timing

MIKADO LOGO 600 TREX 550

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04-23-2009 12:13 PM  9 years agoPost 14
JeepCJ

rrKey Veteran

Pennellville NY (Syracuse Heli Group)

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Also, I think that while you are learning to do something, you tend to pick a point where you do your corrections. If the timing is off, just slightly, you will be adding unwanted corrections to the other axis. example. If you add a little left or right cyclic to hold position, but when you do, the nose is slightly down, you have changed the axis of rotation, and the heli will be pointing slightly left or right. compound this by doing multiple flips and it all adds
up. Same with adding rudder imputs.
Or, I could be all wrong (disclaimer)

bob

Team Synergy/ Team Scorpion

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04-23-2009 03:18 PM  9 years agoPost 15
Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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Disclaimer! lol. Rudder inputs on multiple flips would cancel each other out unless it was right rudder when upright and left rudder when inverted or vise versa.
Actually yes, you could be moving your collective in a diagonal instead of straight up and down? Mode 2?

If that is the case I would add a little more rudder stick tension.

60% of the time, it works every time!

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04-23-2009 03:45 PM  9 years agoPost 16
Flying Brian

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St. Clairsville, Ohio

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that is the case I would add a little more rudder stick tension.
I have this issue too. I thought expo would simply take care of this? So what is rudder tension, somthing inside the radio that mechanicaly stiffens up the stixs?

"I just don't Listen" "

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04-23-2009 03:50 PM  9 years agoPost 17
Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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Yes. The spring tension can be adjusted. Easy to do.

60% of the time, it works every time!

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04-23-2009 04:02 PM  9 years agoPost 18
Flying Brian

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St. Clairsville, Ohio

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Cool Thanks!

"I just don't Listen" "

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04-23-2009 04:06 PM  9 years agoPost 19
Elgreco

rrVeteran

Montreal,QC-Canada

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One more observation from my personal experience...

When I started doing certain moves on the real heli, I find that I was experiencing the same problem, even after I adjusted the heli as well as I could.
At the end, I figured that it was just me. Having the TX sitting on my lap when on the sim, made me just feel the gimbals light, and could barely add any additional input, but when I was holding the TX on the filed, even with a strap, the feeling of holding it more with my hands, had a different effect on my thumbs and I was making additional unwanted inputs...

At the end, as they said, you learn to adjust as you go.

Trex 550 V-BAR, Trex 700 V-BAR, N5-os55VBAR, TREX700E V-BAR /X9503

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04-23-2009 04:33 PM  9 years agoPost 20
Jlerch

rrApprentice

Parrish, Florida

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Weight and balance problems.

If the CG isn't on the main shaft, gyroscopic procession will induce un-commanded roll. When you fix the roll with aileron input, the tail will have effectively moved a touch.

Every flip causes this error to build up, after 3 or 4 revolutions it will get ugly.

Another test, do 3 backflips, stop and notice which way the heli has moved. Now repeat but do 3 front flips. Repeat and do 3 rolls to the left, then 3 rolls to the right.

This error is usually more pronounced in Aileron rolls. For instance, on my bird, right rolls with a full tank cause a slow tail down result. When the tank is nearly empty, I get exactly opposite results. My bird is setup to balance on the main shaft at half tank.

James Lerch - Tampa Bay FL

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HomeAircraftHelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › Multiple Forward Flips
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