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HomeAircraftHelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › Dual Rates and Expo How many use it?
04-23-2009 01:26 PM  9 years agoPost 21
jester4

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Brampton, Ontario

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I fly thumbs, so I find that I need some expo in my setup because of my natural tendency to interact with the other inputs during a maneuver.

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04-23-2009 01:36 PM  9 years agoPost 22
Flying Brian

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St. Clairsville, Ohio

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All you achieve by using positive (futaba) expo is to make the heli unnaturally twitchy at centre stick, and only seem more responsive.
Agreed

I use the dual rate switch for a high and low setting expo, and as Im flying. I flip to the lower setting, thus giving the bird a more faster stance around center. The reason for both, for me anyways, is I want to learn to dial out as much expo as possible, and eventully fly with zippo.

"I just don't Listen" "

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04-23-2009 02:33 PM  9 years agoPost 23
red_z06

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Dumont, NJ

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We use 15-20% expo on the cyclics and 0-50% on gyro depending on the brand.

As for the dual rate, we use in conjunction with lower head speed to smooth out the hovering maneuvers during the last competition. This was the setup on idle-up1.

Idle-up 2 where d/r 100% expo 15-20% at full head speed is where we fly most.

www.JustinJee.com

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04-23-2009 06:58 PM  9 years agoPost 24
playfair

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Rochester, NY

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Expos for Pussies!
Technically, if you don't program exponential into your radio, you still have mechanical exponential, so you're still a puss!

Servo travel range is defined in degrees by the radio. When this rotational movement is translated to linear, it's in no way a 1:1 ratio. In fact, this "negative" expo makes the center region MORE sensitive.

It takes around 27% expo to straighten the curve out so stick movement is linear to swash movement.


The sky is our canvas

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04-23-2009 07:08 PM  9 years agoPost 25
red_z06

rrProfessor

Dumont, NJ

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That is true for the output side. Linkage movement is cos(x). At center it is 1 but at 45deg it slows down to 0.707

However, the reverse is true on the input side.

At stick center your finger movement = stick rotation. But at near max, less finger movement will yield same stick rotation.

You can use the diagram above, but just reverse the direction.

But, if you scrutinize the linkages, you will also find that the swash movement (linear) to pitch arm rotation will amplify the output. For this, you can think of the swash as the lines and the servo wheel as the pitch arm rotation. But this only applies to pitch movement for level swash up/down. For cyclic pitch, it is again different.

www.JustinJee.com

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04-23-2009 07:34 PM  9 years agoPost 26
Sam2b

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Tacoma, WA

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So the first few degrees of movement from the servo's and lever's mid point are the largest movement, and the settings closest to where we hover near the ground. I'm sure that is why "mid-point" expo was implemented.

It will be a cool experience to have mechanically linear servos one day.

_Sam B_

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04-23-2009 07:53 PM  9 years agoPost 27
armageddon

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N. Y.

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use longer arms to reduce the degrees in your arc.

..

WHAT SIGNATURE?

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04-23-2009 08:31 PM  9 years agoPost 28
red_z06

rrProfessor

Dumont, NJ

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use longer arms to reduce the degrees in your arc.
Yes. That is true and it even speeds up the linkages. But, as they say, there is no free lunch.

This will lower your output force (inversely proportional to arm length) and resolution (you are still dependent on the pot linked to the output shaft). The speed you have gained will be lost under load due to less force available.

www.JustinJee.com

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04-23-2009 08:44 PM  9 years agoPost 29
red_z06

rrProfessor

Dumont, NJ

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The bottom line for D/R & Expo comes down to what kind of hardware you are packing (not that kind) that is attached to your arms.

Although your finger muscle is analog, and therefore have infinite resolution, not everyone is created equal.

If you have crude resolution fingers, you can mechanically increase the resolution by lengthening the stick (albeit lowering the speed) or electronically by use of D/R & Expo.

www.JustinJee.com

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04-23-2009 09:02 PM  9 years agoPost 30
armageddon

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N. Y.

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it depends on the torque of the servos and the resistance, potentially removing force from the equation and leaving only momentum.

I'm just hovering..

.

WHAT SIGNATURE?

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04-26-2009 04:45 AM  9 years agoPost 31
chopper_crazy

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Delphos, Ohio

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I use around 15% expo on my elevator and aileron servos

It's a complex, costly, glow powered anti-gravity machine!

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04-26-2009 04:58 AM  9 years agoPost 32
ch-47c

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san jose, ca

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Quote
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Expos for Pussies!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Heck I've seen some real dicks use expo.
That's funny, but true.

I use Expo on cyclics and rudder. Heli is less twitchy near center stick. Don't over do it. No D/R.

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04-26-2009 05:10 AM  9 years agoPost 33
RCHSF

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NC

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So what about 10-15% on trex 450? And what servos, just elevator, and aileron, what about the pitch servo, Aux1? And rudder, do all 4 ch's the same amount?

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04-26-2009 05:41 AM  9 years agoPost 34
ch-47c

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san jose, ca

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I use to hate EXPO, but gave it another try after years of not using it, but everyone is different. 10-15% is a good place to start. 25% isn't too much. I have 35% on both cyclics and 15% rudder. Nothing on the others for me, but SwashMix Expo is activated.
Start with 10-15% and hover and see how it feels and fly around. Then try 25%. If you like it bump it 5% until you don't like it. I personally don't like more than 35%. At 45% it wouldn't move much until I got further away from center and then I suddenly had a lot. It is like moving 0 to 45% of travel with no gradual change in between. Find what you like. It should make you heli feel more stable in hover and FFF since you are no longer giving tiny inputs.

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04-26-2009 05:12 PM  9 years agoPost 35
RCHSF

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NC

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I added 15% Aile, and Ele, and 10% on rudder. Seems to be smooter, an not so quick to change direction. I like it for now, but may ease up on it latter.

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04-26-2009 07:02 PM  9 years agoPost 36
Sam2b

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Tacoma, WA

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For you wild guys, try adding some negative expo for a very snappy flight. It is not normal, and not for the faint of heart. Negative expo totally defeats the purpose of what we're all talking about, but I figure I'd mention it since it is expo nonetheless.

Otherwise, always always use positive expo (+).

_Sam B_

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04-26-2009 11:22 PM  9 years agoPost 37
Raptor Pilot

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Northern Ireland U.K

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Have to say i use expo and dual rates on all my models. Its what suits me so thats why i do it.

If it doesnt move and its meant too... use WD 40. If it moves and its not meant too...use duct tape!

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04-27-2009 01:42 PM  9 years agoPost 38
scott sr

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SEAFORD

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OK can someone tell me , I have a JR9303 and a Trex 600 . I would like to soften up the sticks around center and just don't know how to set it up . I now just have the default settings 100% and Lin . So do I lessen the Expo or do I take and make linear different . Or what ever, I have no Idea . So any help will be appreciated . Thank You Scott Sr.

Scott Sr. ><> ****Support Our Troops**** ><>

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04-27-2009 04:46 PM  9 years agoPost 39
mlucia

rrKey Veteran

Essex Jct., Vermont

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OK can someone tell me , I have a JR9303 and a Trex 600 . I would like to soften up the sticks around center and just don't know how to set it up . I now just have the default settings 100% and Lin . So do I lessen the Expo or do I take and make linear different . Or what ever, I have no Idea . So any help will be appreciated . Thank You Scott Sr.
With JR and DX7 you want to add expo to soften the center (+xx). On Futaba you use -xx to achieve the same results.

I generally use 20-30% expo on ail and ele and depending on the gyro sometimes on rudder. Never dual rates.
Generally less expo on the larger heli's and more on the smaller ones.

There are no rules. Whatever feels comfy for you.

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04-27-2009 06:41 PM  9 years agoPost 40
Raptor Pilot

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Northern Ireland U.K

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There are no rules. Whatever feels comfy for you.
Excatley mlucia its what ever works best for yourself or your style of flying.

If it doesnt move and its meant too... use WD 40. If it moves and its not meant too...use duct tape!

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HomeAircraftHelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › Dual Rates and Expo How many use it?
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