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HomeAircraftHelicopterAlignT-REX 600N › Forward Gyro Tray and Inteference
04-22-2009 06:24 PM  9 years agoPost 1
Briliu

rrApprentice

Rome, NY

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Hi,

I have a used 600N with a GY 401, DX7, 9252 servos (9254 on tail), align 2in1, and an align governor. When I first got it, the previous owner had the front servo tray installed, so that is where I installed mine (brand new 401 and 9254 combo). I originally installed it with a piece of gyro foam tape stuff, then a piece of sheet metal, then a nother piece of gyro foam tape, then the gyro. I did this because i read that this position can cause interference from the servos directly below.

Well, I recently noticed that the canopy is pressing down on the gyro and when it shakes, so does the gyro, I figured that was bad, so I removed the additional tape and sheet metal square. Lowering the gyro away from the canopy so that it does not touch.

However, just before flying yesterday evening i noticed that the tail servo was twitching on startup but would calm down if I didnt touch anything, but it would positivly freak out when i moved the cyclic stick or pitch stick. Like slider would move left and right about a total of .25 inches.

I took it inside and am in the process of moving the servo to the rear tray. My questions to you all is:

Should I expect the interaction to clear up with the move?
Does moving the gyro to the back (its about an inch farther from the main shaft here than int he front) affect response/performance?

Thanks in advance for the help!

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04-22-2009 06:52 PM  9 years agoPost 2
bulldogs

rrElite Veteran

~OC~ ,CA USA

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Its kind of hit and miss with that gyro location. I always had my 401 located in the back Then i went to the align gp750 and mounted in the from like you and had no problems.

~TEAM OCHC~
A strong man stands up for himself a STRONGER man will stand up for others.

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04-22-2009 06:54 PM  9 years agoPost 3
beidle99

rrApprentice

West Deptford, NJ

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Had the same problem with mine, moving it back behind the main shaft will not effect performance of the gyro. It will just not look as clean as having it upfront under the canopy. I had the same set up except for the DX7, it is the interference caused by the servos.

Who raised the ground since I took off?

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04-22-2009 06:58 PM  9 years agoPost 4
baddynergy

rrElite Veteran

sierra madre, ca- usa

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First off, if your canopy is rubbing on the gyro, it will never perform correctly.

Second, you shouldn't need the metal plate with the 401. The plate is to reduce vibes not interference. A single piece of futaba tape is all you "should" need. Any more than that and I would start looking for the source of the vibes. that being said I run my sensor in the back.

Most of the issues with interference up front have been from extremely power hungry servos that emmit a large magnetic field. with 9252s you should be fine.
Should I expect the interaction to clear up with the move?
Does moving the gyro to the back (its about an inch farther from the main shaft here than int he front) affect response/performance?
question 1 not if you have a severe vibe issue, if its an interference problem, yes it should help

question 2 makes no difference to the gyro where it is. so performance is the same.

**Unattended children will be givin a shot of espresso and a puppy**

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04-22-2009 07:34 PM  9 years agoPost 5
Briliu

rrApprentice

Rome, NY

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Thanks for the responses!

I'm 99% sure it was due to interference with the servos because it was happening with the helicopter on the bench and outside without the engine on. (I had some weird tail behavior when first flying it with the 2 tape+plate method that i just couldnt figure out awhile ago too, im hoping this fixes it)

Will running the gyro WIRES past the front two servos affect anything? I'm trying to find a way to route it through without the chance to get caught on the bell cranks and shaft, it's like surgery on the heli lol.

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04-22-2009 07:41 PM  9 years agoPost 6
bulldogs

rrElite Veteran

~OC~ ,CA USA

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Run the wires in the frames.

~TEAM OCHC~
A strong man stands up for himself a STRONGER man will stand up for others.

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04-22-2009 07:47 PM  9 years agoPost 7
30636086

rrKey Veteran

Tacoma, WA

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I had the same happened to me! I have 2 friends with the same set up and when I put the gyro on front I had the same result that you! My tail servo started twitching like crazy! So I had to move it to the back, an no more problems; But they have no issues what so ever!

I dont suffer from mental iIlness, I actually enjoy mine!

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04-28-2009 12:36 AM  9 years agoPost 8
HRCH

rrNovice

Hillsborough, NJ

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Yup, same here. I had the DS8317 servos on the 600N, the GY401 gyro was mounted on the front gyro mount. The gyro got interference which caused the rudder servo to twitch. I relocated the gyro, problem solved. Now, I use the front gyro mount for the engine governor.

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04-28-2009 02:57 AM  9 years agoPost 9
eo19

rrApprentice

Newberry, FL

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I was also getting interference from my 9252's. You could tape the metal plate under the gyro mounting tray. If you are using the mounting tray you could also slide it back and drill two new holes. Just make sure you have enough for your starter wand.

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04-28-2009 04:53 AM  9 years agoPost 10
dkshema

rrMaster

Cedar Rapids, IA

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Second, you shouldn't need the metal plate with the 401. The plate is to reduce vibes not interference.
You would be incorrect with that statement. The plate is NOT to reduce vibration, it is to reduce the possibility of external interference messing with the sensor:

From the Futaba FAQ on gyros:
I have my gyro mounted onto a graphite plate in my chopper and am seeing some slight drifting. Is there anything I can do about this?

Yes. We believe the graphite is slightly affecting the sensor's readings. The later shipments of GY240, 401, 502, and 601 gyros all include a small steel plate to resolve this mild drift. You mount the steel plate between 2 pieces of double-sided tape and mount the sensor onto the top side tape.

Please note that MOST helis have no need for this added plate, nor the space it takes up and added complexity of mounting as well as extra mobility of their sensor, so use it only if needed in your heli.
This particular FAQ is a bit nebulous as to "how" the graphite frame is affecting the sensor, but it clearly indicates this is not a vibration damper device.

The response with regard to the GY-601 is much more clear (and before you get to the plate suggestion, there are some better tidbits -- in blue below):
Worthy of a mention is that you are advised to mount the sensor so that no metal or conductive objects can make contact and apply some caution to what is a suitable location? To ensure maximum performance, Futaba's advice is that the sensor should be located a minimum distance of 2 cm away from any servos, 10 cm from the engine and 5 cm from a GV-1 governor amplifier if being used. Once a suitable location is found, mounting the sensor simply involves sandwiching an anti-interference plate between two pieces of self-adhesive foam and sticking the sensor to the chosen location.

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

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04-28-2009 04:58 AM  9 years agoPost 11
Auto180_OCMA

rrApprentice

Futaba City Z (Mobara)

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With 2.4 Ghz you dont need the plate anyway
The plate was mostly used for 72 mhz interference.

If you use 2.4

Dave is correct in my opinion

AMA 334000

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04-28-2009 05:05 AM  9 years agoPost 12
30636086

rrKey Veteran

Tacoma, WA

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With 2.4 Ghz you dont need the plate anyway
OK here I why I use it, and it save you some $ if you have the servo in the back.

Every time you have to get back there you have to tear it up and put new servo tape and after while it adds up a lil @ the time. Well I have the gyro mounted on a plate using the gyro tape and the plate is mounted to the heli with 3M double sided red tape! $4 a Roll!

So you will tear the 3M tape from between the heli and the plate and the gyro still attached to the plate with the gyro tape!

I dont suffer from mental iIlness, I actually enjoy mine!

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04-28-2009 05:17 AM  9 years agoPost 13
Sam2b

rrElite Veteran

Tacoma, WA

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Guys, the Futaba gyro mounting foam adhesive is classified as fit to use with a gyro to both properly attenuate vibrations and mount. It has the right foam construction, and it has the strong adhesive. It is not worth having a gyro come loose in flight.

The metal plate can also help in vibration attenuation for some gyros like the Spartan. Because the Spartan is a light weight gyro, adding the metal plate adds mass to the unit and actually helps attenuate the vibrations from the airframe. So it is not official to say the metal plate doesn't help in vibration attenuation - it can with lighter gyros.

Don't use the plate. Got drifting? Try using the plate.

I encourage pilots to use this Futaba foam adhesive. I see Spartan-RC and Align now distributes this type of foam adhesive as well. Please don't use the 3M tape on your gyro.

Edit:
As far as the canopy touching the gyro, you can re-mount the rear canopy mounts to raise the rear and that will create the clearance you need. I'm running a Vbar gyro up front with the metal plate on my 600n, and it fits with clearance of about 1/8".

_Sam B_

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04-28-2009 05:20 AM  9 years agoPost 14
Auto180_OCMA

rrApprentice

Futaba City Z (Mobara)

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Yap He keeps looking at the HOT GIRLS
Dont tear up trhe 3M use the ALIGN tape or the one that comes with it

Btw -- Its still not fair 30636080 where do you get those pictures

AMA 334000

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04-28-2009 05:29 AM  9 years agoPost 15
dkshema

rrMaster

Cedar Rapids, IA

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With 2.4 Ghz you dont need the plate anyway

The plate was mostly used for 72 mhz interference.
No, again, not true.

The plate is there to shield the gyro sensor from external noise that could be generated inside servos -- electromagnetic interference. This could be from arcing of motor brushes, EMI from digital servos and their microcontrollers, EMI from the switching of the power-FETs in the motor drive amplifiers, even other on-board electronics such as the GV-1 governor.

The conductive case is a Faraday shield. It not only acts to keep unwanted stuff from getting IN, but it also prevents unwanted stuff from getting OUT, too. Exception -- depending upon how well the power supply wiring has been filtered in these gyros, noise can get into (and out of) the gyro through the power and signal lines. That's why I always use a ferrite toroid on the cable coming out of the 401 body. That has cut down on several inexplicable glitches I used to encounter in my helis prior to switching over to 2.4 GHz. I continue that practice, because conducted power line noise is just as deadly as radiated noise.

From the GY-240 manual:
Conductive resin case
Conductive resin case improves anti-EMI (static electricity,
radiowave interference) characteristic.
From the GY-401 manual:
•Conductive resin case
Conductive resin case improves EMC (electrostatic and electromagnetic
interference) resistance.
From the GY502 manual:
Mount the sensor and control amp so that metals or other
conductive objects do not touch these cases.
The GY502 uses a conductive resin case to reduce electromagnetic
interference. Because the surface of the case is conductive, metal
objects may cause a short circuit.

Mount the sensor and servo at least 2cm apart.
When using a GV-1 governor, mount the sensor and GV-1 amp
at least 5cm apart.

When using the GY502 with a motor-driven helicopter, mount
the sensor and drive motor at least 10cm apart.

Noise from the servo motor, GV-1 amp and drive motor may cause
the performance of an erroneously operated gyro to drop.
From the new GY-520 manual:
• The GY520 uses a conductive resin case to prevent
electromagnetic interference. Do not allow anything to touch
the gyro case as it may cause a short circuit.
From the GY-601 manual:
Mount the sensor and control amp so that metals or other conductive objects do not touch these cases.

The GY601 uses a conductive resin case to reduce electromagnetic interference.

Because the surface of the case is conductive, metal objects may cause
a short circuit.

Mount the sensor and servo at least 2cm apart.

When using a GV-1 governor, mount the sensor and GV-1 amp at least
5cm apart.

When using the GY601 with a motor-driven helicopter, mount the
sensor and drive motor at least 10cm apart.

Noise from the servo motor, GV-1 amp and drive motor may cause the
performance of an erroneously operated gyro to drop.

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

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04-28-2009 05:39 AM  9 years agoPost 16
dkshema

rrMaster

Cedar Rapids, IA

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I've got two 600 Nitro Pros. My first one has its 401 rear mounted, that works fine. Servos are S9252s.

The second one uses Hitec HS6975 servos, the 401 is mounted on the front tray, above the servos. It works fine, as well.

And here are a few shots of my standard gyro installations these days, using a toroid on the gyro to RX cable...

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

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