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HomeAircraftHelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › Chopper keeps spinning left - ISO help.
04-22-2009 04:52 AM  9 years agoPost 1
truonk

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sugar land, tx 77498

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Hi everybody i am in need of some help trouble shooting my problem. The bird i have is a Schluter Champion modified to fit into a schluter cobra kit similar to this. http://stores.rchelicopterworld.net/Detail.bok?no=174

Problem: Keeps spinning counter-clockwise.
Attempts: I have tried 2 different gyros on this bird.

First attempt was with the JR 410 Gyro in headlock mode, gain around 70%, rudder subtrim at 0, and made sure it wasn't reversed. I've had "some" luck with this and was actually able to hover for a good 5 mins or so, but once i landed it down and tried to hover again it would go back to spinning counter-clockwise.

Second attempt was with headlock mode disabled and gain set from 40-75%, which did not work very well with rudder subtrim at 0. However, when i put the rudder subtrim to R250 i was able to hover with little control of turning right.

Third attempt was with a JR 3D 770 gyro with gain options set on gear switch. I didn't have time to test with a low gain%, but at 68-75% the bird was still spinning counter-clockwise with no control of turning right with rudder subtrim set to R250.

All Gyro setting have been configured according to the JR manual and flies fine on my Raptor 60 and 30. However, there is one thing i'm suspecting is that the rudder blades spinning left isn't spinning fast enough compared to the main rotars spinning right. There is a flexiable brass tubing with a galvenized wire ran from the tail to the main gear. The wire fits perfectly and the tubing is not bent, but would this effect the rpm of the tail rotar?

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04-22-2009 04:58 AM  9 years agoPost 2
mchammer

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California,USA

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tailblades on backwards???

Peace Through Superior Firepower!!!

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04-22-2009 04:59 AM  9 years agoPost 3
danthemancarol

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charlotte,nc

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Questions to help.
1. when you rotate the main blades, do the tail blades rotate upward. possible belt on wrong.
2. Check your spindle shaft on the tail and make sure its good and tight.
3. Check your spindle that turns the tail rotor belt, might be loose or stripped and slipping.

doesnt sound like its the gyro, sounds mechanical

Dooh, damn dumb thumbs......

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04-22-2009 05:00 AM  9 years agoPost 4
danthemancarol

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charlotte,nc

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Oh, and are your tail blades in the right direction? Been there done that by accident....

Dooh, damn dumb thumbs......

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04-22-2009 05:01 AM  9 years agoPost 5
mchammer

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California,USA

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There is a flexiable brass tubing with a galvenized wire ran from the tail to the main gear. The wire fits perfectly and the tubing is not bent, but would this effect the rpm of the tail rotar?
No it will work alot of the old helis had a drive wire for the tail.

It is not as positive as a belt or torque tube but will work fine if you are just starting out.

Peace Through Superior Firepower!!!

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04-22-2009 05:03 AM  9 years agoPost 6
truonk

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sugar land, tx 77498

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blades are installed properly and the shaft wire was recently replaced yesterday with new tubing to fit perfectly.

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04-22-2009 05:20 AM  9 years agoPost 7
dkshema

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Cedar Rapids, IA

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Can you post some pictures of the tail rotor hub, and the control linkage.

Assuming that you actually have the rudder servo moving the correct direction AND that you have the gyro correcting properly, you should not have any trouble keeping the tail where it needs to be. I am assuming that you know that the rudder channel direction in the TX and the gyro direction must both be set correctly, and that one has no effect on the other?

I flew a Champion for several years, never used a gyro, and the tail was very controllable. Next to my Schluter Superior back then the Champion was my next favorite heli.

It's been a long time since I had a Champion, but as I recall, the tail rotor pitch was controlled by rod going through the center of the TR shaft. The actual pitch slider was a plate that rotated on the rod, and which was captured on the rod by two wheel collars. You had to know how to set the correct TR pitch setting to get that plate and those two collars in the right place on the pitch rod.

IF you do have the gyro and rudder stick moving the servo correctly, and you are certain that the tail rotor drive shaft isn't slipping, then all you need to do is to loosen the two wheel collars that capture the TR pitch slider, and move the pitch slider in the direction that will apply more right rudder correction to the TR blades at hover. Then tighten the collars back down.

Used to be that at low throttle/low collective, you'd loosen those two collars, fold the TR blade tips toward each other, line them up, then tighten down the collars. Your radio would have revolution mix turned on (no gyro, or a rate gyro only), and as you increased throttle/collective, the radio would also mix in right rudder to counter the torque. With the TR blades set as described above, I think you would end up with about six degrees of TR pitch (right turn) at hover.

If you DO have the gyro AND rudder channel moving correctly, the only other problem would be that your tail rotor drive is slipping.

Can you verify that right rudder stick actually makes the nose of the heli turn to the right? If it does, watch the direction that the TR servo moves when you command right rudder. Then pick up the heli, and turn the nose to the LEFT while watching the TR servo. The gyro needs to move the TR servo in the SAME direction that right rudder would have. If that's wrong, you need to reverse the gyro.

Perhaps you can post some pictures of the drive system (at least both ends) as well.

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

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04-22-2009 05:47 AM  9 years agoPost 8
truonk

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sugar land, tx 77498

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04-22-2009 05:54 AM  9 years agoPost 9
truonk

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sugar land, tx 77498

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- dkshema

I do have the gyro and servo setup correctly. It might be the tail rotar drive slipping, but i made sure everything was fasten with threadlock. Sorry if the pictures are taken poorly. If the pictures doesn't help i will try to take better shots of it in the morning.

Also a big thanks for all those helping out.

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04-22-2009 06:13 AM  9 years agoPost 10
dkshema

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Cedar Rapids, IA

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Your TR setup should look something like this (this is a Heliboy, but the Champion wasn't much different):

The TR blades appear to be controlled at the trailing edge, and if I haven't made a mistake, RIGHT rudder wants to pull the TR pushrod FORWARD, which will make the TR pitch rod slide to the right in the picture above (moving the TR pitch slider towards the gear case). That should make the leading edge of the TR blades move AWAY from the gear case, making the nose of the heli want to go right.

So, right rudder, pulls the TR control so the pitch plate moves toward the gear case. Turn the nose of the heli to the left, the gyro also meeds to make the servo pull the pitch slider toward the gear box.

And yes, at hover, you need to have about +6 degrees of pitch in the TR blades (+ being moving the leading edge of the blade AWAY from the gear case).

Found this in an old Schluter System 80 build manual:

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

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04-22-2009 06:23 AM  9 years agoPost 11
dkshema

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Cedar Rapids, IA

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That's a horse of a different color. The TR blades look like some old Miniature Aircraft Xcell blades, and the TR stuff sure doesn't look like anything Schluter built, it too smells of a Min Air Xcell.

That notwithstanding, it would seem that you have leading edge control of the TR blades, and right rudder should make the leading edge of the blades move toward the tail fin (pitch plate wants to move toward the tail fin for Right rudder).

If nothing is slipping, you need to move the collars on that hold the pitch plate towards the tail fin to give you additional right rudder at hover. Put your subtrim back to zero, center your servo at neutral. Make the hover pitch adjustments by moving the TR pitch plate and those two collars. I'd do this in RATE mode (normal mode) on your gyro so that you can hover without left or right yaw happening.

The key is in the pitch plate position on the TR pitch rod.

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

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