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Home🌌Off TopicsOff Topics News & Politics › Miss Califonia Loses After Giving 'Wrong Answer'
04-24-2009 10:27 PM  10 years ago
baddynergy

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Answer me this,

Why does the side that doesnt believe in gay marriage??
Why cant the side for gay marriage concede and call it a civil union?

Why does the conservative side have to cave for the liberal side to be happy?
**Unattended children will be givin a shot of espresso and a puppy**
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04-24-2009 10:30 PM  10 years ago
philip 01

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marriage / civil union

it's the same thing. 2 people bound together by a license in a legal form.

we, for some reason like to lie to ourselves and each other and claim a difference when essentially there is none. it is just a word.

we do this "so we can feel better" and at the end of the day it is meaningless.

kind of like saying you can't gamble in louisiana unless you are on a boat in a river, but not on land. that would be illegal and wrong.

fricking insane the crap we buy in to. it's no wonder we're in the shape we're in as a human race on this planet. when you look at where we are, it is amazing we made it this far with the way the average human thinks and rationalizes "truth" so that we feel good about some of the stupid ways we think.

what priorities we have as a civilization.

if there is other life in the universe they must think we are the equivilent to a bunch of back woods knuckle draggers.
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04-24-2009 10:34 PM  10 years ago
JohnLund

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At this point you have one side saying NO to gay marriage.
The other side YES to gay marriage.

Neither side wants the others views shoved down their throats. Meet in the middle, call it a civil union. Get the insurance and tax breaks including divorce and alimony that go along with it. And everyone be happy the were actually able to resolve a dispute by meeting in the middle. Problem solved
Honestly, I agree with you 100%, I just like debate. Discourse makes us better people. On that note, the bolded part is where I have an issue. I can't seem too grasp giving someone an equal right as having something crammed down their throat. Gays calling their union a marriage isn't going to effect anyone other than them. The core of the issue is bigotry, and the problem is that it isn't going away.
Ron's Heliproz South
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04-24-2009 10:40 PM  10 years ago
JohnLund

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Corpus Christi, TX

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marriage / civil union

it's the same thing. 2 people bound together by a license in a legal form.

we, for some reason like to lie to ourselves and each other and claim a difference when essentially there is none. it is just a word.

we do this "so we can feel better" and at the end of the day it is meaningless.

kind of like saying you can't gamble in louisiana unless you are on a boat in a river, but not on land. that would be illegal and wrong.

fricking insane the crap we buy in to. it's no wonder we're in the shape we're in as a human race on this planet. when you look at where we are, it is amazing we made it this far with the way the average human thinks and rationalizes "truth" so that we feel good about some of the stupid ways we think.

what priorities we have as a civilization.

if there is other life in the universe they must think we are the equivilent to a bunch of back woods knuckle draggers.
QTMFT
Why does the conservative side have to cave for the liberal side to be happy?
It isn't a conservative/liberal issue.
Ron's Heliproz South
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04-24-2009 11:18 PM  10 years ago
RonHill

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JohnLund
And? The Bible isn't a dictionary, or a law book.
Well, it WAS *THE* LAW BOOK for many, many years. And it is the basis for many law books. You know who is in the center of the entrance to the Supreme Court?

You can try to dismiss it as much as you want, that does not change its status and stature.
Maybe they do the selective reading like a lot of christians do.
Maybe, but you can't do "X" and claim that it does not matter when the book you claim to be the guidance clearly says it is not allowed.
So they should just be happy they have a water fountain and seats on the bus right?
No, they should quit trying to start a fight over a word... Just like you are doing now. If you call the same fountain a "cooler" and the same seat a "chair" it does nothing. Instead of moving forward, you and them wish to get into a tizzy about a word.

And BTW your dictionary quotes really mean nothing. Go look at a dictionary from 10 years ago.
The first recorded use of the word "marriage" for the union of same-sex couples also occurs during the Roman Empire. The term, however, was rarely associated with same-sex relationships, even though the relationships themselves were common. In the year 342, the Christian emperors Constantius and Constans declared that same-sex marriage to be illegal. In the year 390, the Christian emperors Valentinian II, Theodoisus and Arcadius declared homosexual sex to be illegal and those who were guilty of it were condemned to be burned alive in front of the public....

It was only after the Council of Trent in 1545, as part of the Counter-Reformation, that a Roman Catholic marriage would be recognized only if the marriage ceremony was officiated by a priest with two witnesses. The Council also authorized a Catechism, issued in 1566, which defined marriage as, "The conjugal union of man and woman, contracted between two qualified persons, which obliges them to live together throughout life...

Some legal, social, or religious restrictions apply in some countries on the genders of the couple.

In response to changing social and political attitudes, some jurisdictions and religious denominations now recognize marriages between people of the same sex. In some jurisdictions these are sometimes called civil unions or domestic partnerships, while some others explicitly prohibit same-sex marriages....
Marriage Act 1753

In England and Wales, the Marriage Act 1753, also called Lord Hardwicke's Marriage Act (citation 26 Geo. II. c. 33), required formal ceremony of marriage, thus abolishing common-law marriage. The act required that if both parties to a marriage were not at least 21 years old, then consent to the marriage had to be given by the parents. Even with consent, parties were not allowed to be married unless the male was at least 14 years old and the female was at least 12[B].
In his three volume The History of Human Marriage (1921), Edward Westermarck defined marriage as "a more or less durable connection between male and female, lasting beyond the mere act of propagation till after the birth of the offspring."

The anthropological handbook Notes and Queries (1951) defined marriage as "a union of a man and a woman such that children of the woman are recognized as legitimate by both parents."
So you can pull definitions, but so can I. Historically, yours are not applicable.

But if you insist on going on and starting a fight about a word... that's your right. It just hurts your cause for no reason.
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04-25-2009 12:04 AM  10 years ago
JohnLund

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Well, it WAS *THE* LAW BOOK for many, many years. And it is the basis for many law books. You know who is in the center of the entrance to the Supreme Court?
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion".

Got Constitution?
So you can pull definitions, but so can I. Historically, yours are not applicable.
Granted, the dictionaries I have in my house are only from 1953 and 1966, but;

Mar·riage (mar'ij)
1. the condition of being married; married life. 2.the act of marrying; wedding.

Mar·riage (mar'ij)
1. the state of being married; relation between husband and wife; wedlock. 2.the act or rite of marrying; wedding 3.any close union.
But if you insist on going on and starting a fight about a word... that's your right. It just hurts your cause for no reason.
It's not my cause, and the same could be said about you. Plain and simple it's bigotry, and it isn't any more righteous dressed up in religion.
Ron's Heliproz South
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04-25-2009 12:30 AM  10 years ago
baddynergy

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Gays calling their union a marriage isn't going to effect anyone other than them.
But the majority doesnt want it called that. Your right it wont effect them in anyway, except what they believe a marriage is.
**Unattended children will be givin a shot of espresso and a puppy**
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04-25-2009 12:51 AM  10 years ago
JohnLund

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Your right it wont effect them in anyway, except what they believe a marriage is.
Maybe they need to re-examine their strength in thier belief system when two people getting married can cause them to question their beliefs.
Ron's Heliproz South
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04-25-2009 02:20 AM  10 years ago
SSN Pru

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Taxachusetts

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Boy, if as much energy were put into actually fighting for a legit cause as people have put into fighting for the words "gay marriage" we'd live in FLOCKING Eutopia...

Really, who gives a flyin fack what it's called?
Stupidity can be cured. Ignorance is for life!
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04-25-2009 02:37 AM  10 years ago
philip 01

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Boy, if as much energy were put into actually fighting for a legit cause as people have put into fighting for the words "gay marriage" we'd live in FLOCKING Eutopia...

Really, who gives a flyin fack what it's called?
we're on planet of the idiots. mankind has digressed intellectually and we are reaping the rewards.

just look at our 'leaders'. of course we do have those behind the scenes pulling a few strings here and there. they're living. we're sleeping. getting worked up about meaningless issues while strings get pulled and no one notices.
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04-25-2009 02:40 AM  10 years ago
Dennis (RIP)

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Maybe they need to re-examine their strength in thier belief system when two people getting married can cause them to question their beliefs.
I don't believe we are questioning our beliefs.

But rather reaffirming them.
Liberty once lost, is lost forever.
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04-25-2009 02:44 AM  10 years ago
JohnLund

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I don't believe we are questioning our beliefs.

But rather reaffirming them.
If someone elses marriage can make yours mean less, than you have no beliefs left to affirm.
Ron's Heliproz South
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04-25-2009 02:47 AM  10 years ago
Dennis (RIP)

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If someone elses marriage can make yours mean less, than you have no beliefs left to affirm.
If thats the way you see it. Then fine.

I disagree. I have a right to vote my conscience on any issue. Same as you. And, that is exactly what I will do. You vote the way you want.

BTW: Even if the gays got their marriage issue, it will not demean any of my past marriages.

Liberty once lost, is lost forever.
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04-25-2009 02:47 AM  10 years ago
baddynergy

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If someone elses marriage can make yours mean less
I dont think thats what anyone is saying. What I think they are saying is " I believe marriage is between a man and a woman". It does not mean they will feel any less about their own marriage.

But on the other hand, why are the people opposed to it not supposed to think and feel and believe how they want? Its their right to have their own thoughts even if they are hypocritical at times.
**Unattended children will be givin a shot of espresso and a puppy**
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04-25-2009 02:57 AM  10 years ago
JohnLund

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baddraptor
JohnLund
If someone elses marriage can make yours mean less
I dont think thats what anyone is saying. What I think they are saying is " I believe marriage is between a man and a woman". It does not mean they will feel any less about their own marriage.
Dennis
It demeans the meaning of marriage to me.
With all the domestic violence, absentee fathers, and just general state of dysfunctionality in the American family nowadays, that's all fine, but somehow two people of the same sex that actually love each other getting united and calling it married, yea, that's going to demean straight marriage
But on the other hand, why are the people opposed to it not supposed to think and feel and believe how they want? Its their right to have their own thoughts even if they are hypocritical at times.
No one said they can't think about it all day long, they can hate whoever they hate for whatever reason till they explode, but their feelings don't give them the right to limit the freedom of another person.
Ron's Heliproz South
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04-25-2009 03:01 AM  10 years ago
Dennis (RIP)

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With all the domestic violence, absentee fathers, and just general state of dysfunctionality in the American family nowadays, that's all fine, but somehow two people of the same sex that actually love each other getting united and calling it married, yea, that's going to demean straight marriage
They are the ones forcing it to the voting booth John, along with activist judges.

Go chat with them about it.

You won't change any minds here. Just a suggestion.
No one said they can't think about it all day long, they can hate whoever they hate for whatever reason till they explode, but their feelings don't give them the right to limit the freedom of another person.
Who said anything about hate? Oh, I see, you did.
Liberty once lost, is lost forever.
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04-25-2009 03:07 AM  10 years ago
JohnLund

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They are the ones forcing it to the voting booth John, along with activist judges.
No Dennis, denying people the same rights we enjoy is.
Ron's Heliproz South
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04-25-2009 03:09 AM  10 years ago
Dennis (RIP)

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Oregon

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No Dennis, denying people the same rights we enjoy is.
Quite the opposite.

If they force it to the voting booth, then they deny themselves.
Liberty once lost, is lost forever.
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04-25-2009 03:17 AM  10 years ago
JohnLund

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Quite the opposite.

If they force it to the voting booth, then they deny themselves.
I guess in your mind that makes some kind of sense.
Ron's Heliproz South
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04-25-2009 03:18 AM  10 years ago
baddynergy

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sierra madre, ca- usa

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How it should really be put;

Yes, we agree you have the rights as everyone else and deserve to be together if you so choose. We will set aside our beliefs for your rights, but you in return need to respect our beliefs and call it a civil union.

No wonder nothing never gets done, even here this conversation is just going in circles and neither side willing to bend..
**Unattended children will be givin a shot of espresso and a puppy**
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