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Miniature Aircraft Whiplash & Furion 6
› Xera motor on 12s for Razor
04-21-2009 02:46 PM  9 years agoPost 1
Darkplague

rrNovice

Adelaide, South Australia

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Ok just received my Xera motor in the mail.

I want to convert my Razor-E to 12s, so any help is appreciated.

Specs are: 14.25:1 gearing, 16 T pinion, Tango 45-08, hv85 esc,10s 3700 packs

The motor is a Xera 4025/ 2.5Y 667 8P , have just ordered some Zippy 6s 3300 to go with the motor as well.

Anybody know what pulleys I need to change? I had a look on the net and there is bugger all info about the Razor gearing. Does the hv85 handle 12s easily?

On another note the Xera motor is very nicely built. You can just pick it up and tell it is a quality bit of gear just by looking at it in your hand.

Thanks for your help

Mark

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04-21-2009 09:31 PM  9 years agoPost 2
misskimo

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Alaska 17 years, before mississippi for 31y

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hey, will I knew alot about the heli a few years back, but my guess 13 to 1 should be a good place to start, I forgot the gear count for 14.25, if you can give me the info , I will help you find it. with the outrunner , choose a bigger than 16t , anything small might strip the belt teeth right off. you can run what you have, 14 to 1 100% throttle will give you a 2100 HS , it should fly good there but not ripping performance. I dont know your flying style. also , you will get a 6 to 7 min flight time doing it wide open with the gear ratio you have

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04-22-2009 11:34 AM  9 years agoPost 3
stanc

rrKey Veteran

Conroe, TX

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MA's Retail Store Link
Go to the very bottom and you will see the Razor parts and a list of pulleys and combos with the gear ratio indicated.
The tooth pitch for these pulleys is 3MM HTD and you can buy them and the belts for less at sdp-si.com.

MrMel's Calculator to help figure out what gear ratio you want.

These results are using 12S and a 14.25 ratio with your 667kV motor and a CC ESC w/governor. Like Tony said not a real ripper.
Voltage for this calculation (min):3,404/cell with a total of 40,848
Nominal voltage: Spoolup RPM 100% throttle no governor (44,4v): 2078
Avg RPM you will see with 100% throttle and no governor: 1895

Max normal bogging applied you will see RPM at: 1625
(this number should be the minimum if your motor & battery is up for the challenge)

Spoolup with Governor @ 65%: 1754
Spoolup with Governor @ 75%: 1857
Spoolup with Governor @ 85%: 1960

Stan
2- Logo 500
Ion X2
eAvro90

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04-25-2009 06:59 PM  9 years agoPost 4
Darkplague

rrNovice

Adelaide, South Australia

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Thanks for the help guys, much appreciated.

Had a look at that sdpi.com website, but it is pretty overwhelming for a newb like me.

Anyway atm I am flying with a 2300 headspeed @ 90% govenerned which I really like, so to maintain this speed, I would need to drop down to 12:1 gearing if my calculations are correct?

Also misskimo, could you elaborate on the 16 tooth pinion bit? I dont understand why going to 12s is going to suddenly strip my belts. Thanks.

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04-25-2009 07:24 PM  9 years agoPost 5
misskimo

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Alaska 17 years, before mississippi for 31y

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hey, you should be able to buy a ratio from your LHS that carries MA products, rremodels has a part # for 12 to 1 ratio
127-284, and Im looking for the 13 to 1
to help alittle more,
heres what I came up with to get close to your needs,
36 and a 16t , or a 38t / 18t , I like the 18t better,

also some tips on figureing it out on your own
the main gear and secondary pinion are fixed, the ratio is
like , 90t main gear and a 15t secondary pinion
90 divided by 15 will be 6 to 1
now , the secondary bull gear as I call it
like the 38t and the 18t
divide 38 into 18 will be 2.11
6 X 2.11 is 12.6 to 1
also

MA site
http://www.miniatureaircraftusa.com....asp?bypass=yes

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04-26-2009 01:53 AM  9 years agoPost 6
Darkplague

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Adelaide, South Australia

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Thanks misskimo, I think that makes it easy to understand, maths isnt really my specialty but I can understand your calulation down the bottom no problems.

Regarding the 18 tooth motor pinion, could you expand why you prefer that to a 16 tooth? Its just that I already have a 16 tooth on my motor already thats all.

Is it because there is more teeth to "spread the load" so to speak reducing the loading of the belt over a wider area of teeth? I think that makes sense

Thanks

Mark

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04-26-2009 02:19 AM  9 years agoPost 7
misskimo

rrElite Veteran

Alaska 17 years, before mississippi for 31y

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hey, teeth contact on the belt, with the 18t , alot more belt area coverage on there to grip. also , kinda like a leverage thing too, Ex. lets say you have a 8" cresent wrench and you want 100 lbs of torque on a 15/16 nut, kinda hard to do with that short wrench, either get a longer wrench or put a cheater pipe on it. the bigger pinion would be like adding a cheater or getting a bigger wrench.
too small will create good torque, but could damage the belt at high loads. to big of a pinion will also work against you, it makes the motor load up which makes the tail easy to swing out. also harder on the batteries, theres a sweet spot that you need to find, with the belt drive, you can do it.
one time I was playing around with the ratios , 12s and the 32-3 on there. used a 11.4 to 1 ratio, had a big ole 20t on the motor, man did it pull good, I had another set of pinions and secondary that = to about the same ratio, like 11.2 , but the pinion was a 16t. it bogged down and it seamed to loose about 10% of the power I seen with the other ratio

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04-27-2009 12:00 AM  9 years agoPost 8
stanc

rrKey Veteran

Conroe, TX

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I can expand on that, since I was the one it happened to. Anything less than 16T, the isn't enough teeth on the belt at the same time and with the motor running that fast, it just strips the inner liner out. When it happened to me, I call and talked to Tim and that's what he told me and it does make since. It just pissed me off that MA didn't let anyone know this, like in the manual. There should be a BIG * beside the gear ratio listed in the Razor parts, so someone would read the footnote before they bought that ratio.

Stan
2- Logo 500
Ion X2
eAvro90

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04-27-2009 01:05 AM  9 years agoPost 9
misskimo

rrElite Veteran

Alaska 17 years, before mississippi for 31y

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hey, what year did that happen to you? I was a rep for MA when the razor came out, with in a short time, I knew about it

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04-27-2009 03:19 AM  9 years agoPost 10
stanc

rrKey Veteran

Conroe, TX

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Remember us talking about it over at RCG, this was right after the Razor came out. I think I was the first person to get a kit that had a canopy included.
Remember the problem with the belt riding down on the brass piece of tubing under the two bearings and I replaced it with another bearing and you then told Tim. He told you he was going to implement that in the future kits, but he never did.

Stan
2- Logo 500
Ion X2
eAvro90

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04-27-2009 01:42 PM  9 years agoPost 11
Darkplague

rrNovice

Adelaide, South Australia

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Guys, im going with a 20 tooth pinion, and standard 38 tooth pulley to give me 11.4:1, roughly 2300 hs.

I actually have a spreadsheet sent to me which is supposed to be the best calculator for Razor headspeeds, made here in Australia, however cant open it up (stoopid computer) It is in xls format. If anyone wants it, send us a pm.

Today I had an oppurtunity to buy 2 Outrage packs , 6S 3000 25c, at a price which I couldnt ignore. (they are practically new with only 2 flights on them)

How much shorter would the flights be compared to a 3700mah for example?
If you could get a killer deal on these batteries, would you buy them taking into account the shorter times?
Im still undecided.

Thanks

Mark

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05-02-2009 08:32 AM  9 years agoPost 12
misskimo

rrElite Veteran

Alaska 17 years, before mississippi for 31y

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hey, alittle small. with my TP 3300s I had a 4 min flight time, I would stick with something bigger. unless you gear for a 2000 HS

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05-02-2009 08:35 AM  9 years agoPost 13
misskimo

rrElite Veteran

Alaska 17 years, before mississippi for 31y

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also , my Cal with the Xera Motor you have 667 Kv 12S 11.4 to 1 ratio is a wappying 2700 wide open, might need to get another gear

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05-03-2009 02:47 PM  9 years agoPost 14
Darkplague

rrNovice

Adelaide, South Australia

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First flight today with the Xera motor.

Specs: Razor 600-e
hv85, 9252'2, 611+9256

Gearing= 11.4:1

Lipo's: Zippy 6s 3300's in series

First flight was a conservative 4 minutes to be safe.

Boy is this motor a powerhouse. On 12s the heli is a rocket. I am in love.

Esc is set at 75% to give me 2200rpm.

After 4 mins, the battery came down cold, as did the esc, the motor was fairly warm though which I knew it would be.

What is a safe max temp that your motor can get too without doing damage?
I would guess by feel that the motor was at least 50 degrees. Need to get a proper temp gauge in the future.

I alos put back 1600 mah into each pack, so I should be able to get 5 min 30 sec flights .

No looking back to 10s now, just means more money to spend on lipos

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05-03-2009 05:24 PM  9 years agoPost 15
Clarence Creer

rrVeteran

Fort Worth, Texas

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video
sure would like to some video

Team Kontronik Team minicopter/PeakAircraft
VTeam EvoPowerBattery

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05-10-2009 05:15 AM  9 years agoPost 16
CNCAddict

rrApprentice

Newport, N.C.

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Can you get a temp reading on the motor? I never really expected anyone to run 12s on a 667rpm/v motor, so you're pushing the limits for sure.

David B.
Xera motors

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05-10-2009 09:46 AM  9 years agoPost 17
Darkplague

rrNovice

Adelaide, South Australia

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Yes, I was worried about the temps myself.

Flew for 5min30secs, and tested the temperature with an infrared thermo,
got up to 49 degrees C. MY packs got to 35, and my esc about the same.

I'm pretty sure that this is well within safe operating temps.

Looks like this motor is a keeper :P

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05-11-2009 03:09 AM  9 years agoPost 18
CNCAddict

rrApprentice

Newport, N.C.

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Yeah, 49C is no problem. If it gets close to 100C then something should be looked at.

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