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HomeAircraftHelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › The future is looking great for LiPos
04-21-2009 01:43 PM  9 years agoPost 1
Yug

rrMaster

UK. Herts

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04-21-2009 01:53 PM  9 years agoPost 2
JAGNZ

rrProfessor

Auckland, New Zealand

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10 years. That is my estimate as to when battery tech will reach the maturity required for world wide mass adoption in the majority of power storage applications. Until then fossil fuels will rule the day and even after that, power generation for charging will still largely depend on fossil fuels. The infrastructure is simply not there (and would be VERY expensive to create) for mass adoption of electric power usage IMO.


Jason Greenwood

www.3dheli.co.nz

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04-21-2009 01:57 PM  9 years agoPost 3
red_z06

rrProfessor

Dumont, NJ

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Yug

Thanks for the post.

www.JustinJee.com

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04-21-2009 01:58 PM  9 years agoPost 4
LaurenceGough

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UK

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All the worries about the power networks, well we don't need to have batteries charging in 1-30 mins (which will put lots of strain on everything) I would be happy with anything less than one hour. Or for bigger packs maybe even more.

How long it lasts, how much power it ouputs and cycle life is what I hope to see more of a improvement in (while being about the same weight as Lipo).

It's going to happen just a matter of how long!

I know what you mean JAGNZ about the power source, well we need to step up wind generators and other natural ways of sourcing energy, I'm sure there's a way.

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04-21-2009 02:21 PM  9 years agoPost 5
T-Rex-Flyer

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Panama City, Fl

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Seen an artical (can't remember where) that Ford is also working to develop lithium-ion battery systems.

If the wings are traveling faster than the fuselage, it's probably a helicopter.

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04-21-2009 02:34 PM  9 years agoPost 6
ferincr

rrVeteran

From Argentina now in Costa Rica

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Let me put my flame suit on...
I see everywhere (not just this forum) people really concern about battery run cars, and yes I know it a place to start but...
The worst cae scenarios there is no place that you go in a car that you cannot get to in a bicycle, electric train, walking or a combination of those.
The thing that bugs me (I don't know if I'm thinking too far forward or what, but I never seen it mentioned) is how about air traffic???
I don't see anybody mention/asking about the future of air carriers.
To me that is the biggest problem, most of the world bussiness is carried over seas and it doesn't seem to be any substitute for those fuel burners unless people stop flying and "travelling" over the web.

Am I a pesimist? worring to far in advance? am I missing some point here?
I know I'm not the most optimistic person (I rather consider me as a realistic one) but every time I see somewhere somebody making a big fuss about a little electric car I can't but think on the big jet liners?
As I said before I know we have to start some where, but is there any project for the big bad guys up there that I don't know of???

I just re read this and it sound a bit negative and by no means my intention was to attack your post (I'd like to make that clear) I just wanted to let know what's my real worry and for that I thought it was good to explain the way I see it.

Fernando

Intelligence chases me, but I'm a lot faster! Fernando

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04-21-2009 02:38 PM  9 years agoPost 7
Flying Brian

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St. Clairsville, Ohio

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What more could we really ask for, out of our lipo batteris. I think the tech right now is extremly amazing as it sits!!

"I just don't Listen" "

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04-21-2009 02:57 PM  9 years agoPost 8
darkfa8

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Brick, NJ - USA

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currently, battery powered cars have a limited range. they compromise the way of life of the current (American) driving public's way of life. Some say these electric cars will be good for city-dwellers.

i live near NYC and my gf works in Manhattan. the majority of her co-works (native to NYC) don't even own cars, they take public trans. if the Chevy Volt or equivalent is only going to go 40 miles per charge, that won't even get you to the shore, hamptons or CT, and then what? You're gonna wait several hours or more for it to charge? That'll get you one hell of a bad sun burn

plus, where do you think the electricity to charge your car's batteries is coming from? right now the majority of US electricity is produced by coal burning power plants - dirty, old coal power. BTW, there is no such thing as clean coal... there is cleaner coal, but anyway you slice it you burn coal and dirty emissions result. more time and energy are being spent to try and clean the coal emissions.

now look at the Honda Clarify FCX. hydrogen, the most abundant, replenishable element on the planet. the car exhausts water. it doesn't compromise your driving way of life. the potential down side is whatever waste or consumables are used to produce the highly exotic materials in the fuel cell. until the production impact is determined, the IN/OUT emissions and driving ability of a hydrogen fuel cell vehicle seems to make better environmental sense than anything powered by batteries or fossil fuels.

Right now, battery powered vehicles I think have their place as limited range transportation. They will help offset some of the emissions of fossil fueled components, but at a cost of using more electricity that has to be produced in some fashion that may or may not produce as much or more emissions than the fossil fuel powered component the system replaces.

i just think about what has to go into making a product and what it requires to operate and whether or not it really is any better than the technology it is meant to surplant.

i wouldn't be surprised to someday see models powered by a renewable energy powerplant.

- Dan Goldstein
Team Revolectrix

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04-21-2009 03:20 PM  9 years agoPost 9
Yug

rrMaster

UK. Herts

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It wasn't my intention to site cars with this post, but moreover to indicate that battery technology is moving along nicely so we may look forward to the spinoff applications for powering our helis. Although we get sufficient power from the current batteries, that's about the only real positive. Weight, charge time and robustiness are still questionable. I was most excited the other year when I heard about the new silicon nanotube electrodes targeted for use in lipos, with their numerous advantages over the current electrode technology. Primarily, a power to weight ratio improvement of 10 times, shorter charge times and increased reliability & lifetime simply due to the fact that the nanotubes can absorb more ions without fracture due to them being a few atoms wide. It's great to see how this technology has now moved beyond the early R&D stages to real world testing.

Vegetable rights and Peace

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04-21-2009 03:28 PM  9 years agoPost 10
darkfa8

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Brick, NJ - USA

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Yug, I appologize for diverting off your intended course.

I do believe improved battery technology for our models is a great thing. It has already revolutionized the hobby in the last decade.

I personally could do without having to wipe down the oil, having fuel jugs in the apartment and all the other peripheral stuff of liquid fuel powered models floating around.

Unfortunately, other than the 425mm or smaller electric helis out there, I still have trouble with a unwillingness to put a $100+ battery in a model that could potentially be destroyed in a crash as opposed to maybe a few dollars worth or less of fuel spilled (bad for the environment i know ).

Costs will continue to come down, and technology will improve. All for the better.

- Dan Goldstein
Team Revolectrix

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04-21-2009 03:31 PM  9 years agoPost 11
Peter Wales

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Orlando Fl

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now look at the Honda Clarify FCX. hydrogen, the most abundant, replenishable element on the planet. the car exhausts water. it doesn't compromise your driving way of life. the potential down side is whatever waste or consumables are used to produce the highly exotic materials in the fuel cell. until the production impact is determined, the IN/OUT emissions and driving ability of a hydrogen fuel cell vehicle seems to make better environmental sense than anything powered by batteries or fossil fuels.
yes, lots of hydrogen around, in the water. And how do you get it out? Put 2 electrodes in it and hydrogen comes off one of them. All you need is coal fired power station to produce the electricity to make the hydrogen which is super clean and wont pollute the environment.

We need a whole new way of thinking about generating electricity to do the work needed to make useable fuel.

Peter Wales
http://scalehelicopters.org

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04-21-2009 03:33 PM  9 years agoPost 12
TiMbOb

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Canada

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The carbon footprint of a typical hybrid, from build to end of life, is double that of your average Chev Duramax diesel 4x4. Add to that the $8000 battery, if it goes south, plus the incredible environmental nastiness for disposal of the thing and your average gas/diesel guzzler looks pretty good.

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04-21-2009 03:44 PM  9 years agoPost 13
Yug

rrMaster

UK. Herts

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I feel safer storing jugs of nitro in my shed than lipos. They get religated to an outside containment area
Anyhow, recently, there was this bloke somewhere in the US who developed a system using solar power and rainwater to generate hydrogen by electrolysis. The hydrogen was stored in steel cylinders and used for all his energy needs; ie, running the house and car. He was off the grid and had plenty to spare.
Electricity IS required to produce hydrogen, but it seems perhaps the best means of energy storage (both short and longterm) is in the form of hydrogen. Very safe, very clean, does not degrade over time and easy to convert back to electricity or use directly as fuel for IC engines. Can't help wondering what the weight of a hydrogen container would be for a 10 minute heli flight using a hybrid engine ? Electric helis are all very well, but.................

Vegetable rights and Peace

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04-21-2009 05:21 PM  9 years agoPost 14
VooDooX

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San Francisco Bay Area CA, US (San Mateo)

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THIS WILL DEFIANTLY RULE NITROS

nLTO can be charged in as little as one minute, according to the company, while graphite-containing cells take between one and two hours to charge.

Altairnano has performed tests demonstrating more than 9,000 use cycles at charge/discharge rates at which other battery types simply cannot function, let alone charge, according to the company.

In March, Altair Nanotechnologies and Electro Energy entered into a four-year Joint Development Agreement for the design, manufacture and marketing of high-power lithium-ion batteries and battery systems

4 YEARS AND THESE BATTERIES SHOULD HIT HOBBY MARKETS I BET

Velocity 50 "99.9999999999999% of an atom is empty space." also 01001000 01001001

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04-21-2009 05:25 PM  9 years agoPost 15
holzback

rrKey Veteran

noblesville IN United States

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have fun cuz they are gonna cost ya.

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04-21-2009 06:17 PM  9 years agoPost 16
airsoft1779

rrApprentice

Greenville,SC-USA

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THIS WILL DEFIANTLY RULE NITROS

nLTO can be charged in as little as one minute, according to the company, while graphite-containing cells take between one and two hours to charge.

Altairnano has performed tests demonstrating more than 9,000 use cycles at charge/discharge rates at which other battery types simply cannot function, let alone charge, according to the company.

In March, Altair Nanotechnologies and Electro Energy entered into a four-year Joint Development Agreement for the design, manufacture and marketing of high-power lithium-ion batteries and battery systems

4 YEARS AND THESE BATTERIES SHOULD HIT HOBBY MARKETS I BET
i dont think it will be all tha expensive at all.

(a little kid explaination of it) the way it charges so fast is in a normal present day lipo the electrons(i think) have to find there way to the cells, and thats why it takes up to an hour to charge. they found a way to "direct" and sort of "steer" the electrons directly to the cells, cutting time down majorly, and w/ the new nLTO batt, it is powerful, tough, and long lasting, and liter the a lipo batt. im not sure if im comepletly correct but tell me if im not.

and for the electirc cars.

they are finding ways to make electric cars more effienct, like going 200+ miles on the interstate before the batt starts to go dead. and recharging? well, they will soon be making universal "battery stations" were all you do is drive in to the "battery station", a robot arm will remove the dead battery, and place a fresh battery in, then the dead batt (along w/ many other dead and fresh batts.)will charge underground and then go to somebody else. it will take less time then it is to fill up a car w/ gas and is cheaper. and yes, the cars and go fast and are powerful. so all you have to do is pull in and get a fresh batt. its amazing how technology is devoploping! i read this in pop sci.

6s Trex 450 PRO and Vision 50 Comp.

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04-21-2009 10:42 PM  9 years agoPost 17
holzback

rrKey Veteran

noblesville IN United States

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it is going to take some type of expensive charger to charge these things. im sure it will take a special charger to charge a lipo in a minute. trust me these batteries are not going to be cheap, it is a new technology.

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04-21-2009 10:57 PM  9 years agoPost 18
Yug

rrMaster

UK. Herts

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trust me these batteries are not going to be cheap, it is a new technology
Perhaps this needs putting into perspective.... For me, time at the field is precious, so I'll fly - refuel - fly - refuel etc etc. While I was able to fly, I could scrounge perhaps an hour and a half at lunchtime or after work so I could get 8 or 9 flights in. For an electric heli, that means having at least 6 batteries and chargers which is going to cost maybe £2400. If one of these new fangled batteries and chargers cost £1000, is still dead cheap because the charge time will be so fast, you only need one. Compared to nitro, it will have paid for itself in only 300 flights. Mind you, I'd have probably put the bird in by then so that would be the least of my problems

Vegetable rights and Peace

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04-21-2009 11:49 PM  9 years agoPost 19
heliraptor10

rrKey Veteran

kokomo, in-US

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There are several different battery technologies- that each promise about a 10x increase- that are supposed to be available very soon.

If only one of them is half right,
I will be very happy.

That being said I will echo some people

Holzback,
I agree with you,
if we see High capacity batteries (no matter what the make up)
I imagine them costing as much as twice what we pay for good batteries now.

Flying Brian,
I also agree that things are pretty good now.

With my small assortment of lipos (two 6s, and six 3s), and my cellpro10s I can spend a whole day at the field,
and I spend more time waiting for my turn than I ever do waiting on batteries.

Goblin! where have you been all my life?
RC helis, the original fidget spinners

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04-22-2009 12:26 AM  9 years agoPost 20
holzback

rrKey Veteran

noblesville IN United States

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Perhaps this needs putting into perspective.... For me, time at the field is precious, so I'll fly - refuel - fly - refuel etc etc. While I was able to fly, I could scrounge perhaps an hour and a half at lunchtime or after work so I could get 8 or 9 flights in. For an electric heli, that means having at least 6 batteries and chargers which is going to cost maybe £2400. If one of these new fangled batteries and chargers cost £1000, is still dead cheap because the charge time will be so fast, you only need one. Compared to nitro, it will have paid for itself in only 300 flights. Mind you, I'd have probably put the bird in by then so that would be the least of my problems
they might charge fast, but with all the little things that can destroy a battery, whats it matter. lets say i pay, 120 bucks a month on fuel, for my 50. that is a garentee every 3 months for 360$ i will have power. if those batteries are 350$, ( they will probably be a lot higher) and i fly the electric as much as the nitro, i have no choice, but to go 3 months without a crash for things to break even. if you fly everyday and do a lot of 3d that is a lot of extra weight on your shoulders.

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