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HomeAircraftHelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › Flying Nose Up, and Backwards
04-21-2009 03:14 AM  9 years agoPost 21
30636086

rrKey Veteran

Tacoma, WA

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but yes Sim is main tool to pilots real and R/C these days.

it will quickly show you what you are capable of.
+1

I dont suffer from mental iIlness, I actually enjoy mine!

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04-21-2009 05:46 AM  9 years agoPost 22
Flying Brian

rrElite Veteran

St. Clairsville, Ohio

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get a better sim
Classic, I ask a question, and get answers that are non relevent to the topic..

I love it....

"I just don't Listen" "

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04-21-2009 06:25 AM  9 years agoPost 23
JAGNZ

rrProfessor

Auckland, New Zealand

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Brian, I have said it before and I'll say it again. In fact I'll keep saying it until it gets through that (obviously) thick skull of yours - GET A SIM (I recommend Phoenix) and USE it. It will make the learning curve more fun IMHO. Why are you so damn stubborn on this?


Jason Greenwood

www.3dheli.co.nz

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04-21-2009 08:47 AM  9 years agoPost 24
Jerry K

rrKey Veteran

Houston Area

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[quote]I guess I need to NOT be perfectly vertical, but yet be angled a bit, but keep it close to that vertical zone[quote]

Brian, you still don't get it. You must be acelerating in that mode or you will loose momentum. Because there is not enough lift in that attidude to support the heli.

Hover in that position and you will find the heli just slides down the slope, so it must be the momentum thing. Once you are not acelerating any more you will slide down the slope.

Remember MANAGE lift AND momentum

Think of this. When a baseball is thrown it is acelerating so it is moving up but when it slows, it is STILL moving but it begins to fall!!! THATS MOMENTUM

Jerry

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04-21-2009 10:48 AM  9 years agoPost 25
Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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Do it higher up so that from your perspective it is vertical and just give it full pitch to keep it up, it will start to fall eventually though. Maybe you need more pitch? The pro's use all the pitch they can get to keep the heli upright in such manuevers.
A lighter heli will also stay up for longer than a heavier heli.

60% of the time, it works every time!

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04-21-2009 12:45 PM  9 years agoPost 26
Flying Brian

rrElite Veteran

St. Clairsville, Ohio

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Brian, you still don't get it. You must be acelerating in that mode or you will loose momentum. Because there is not enough lift in that attidude to support the heli. Hover in that position and you will find the heli just slides down the slope, so it must be the momentum thing. Once you are not acelerating any more you will slide down the slope.

Remember MANAGE lift AND momentum

Think of this. When a baseball is thrown it is acelerating so it is moving up but when it slows, it is STILL moving but it begins to fall!!! THATS MOMENTUM
Sounds like Im putting the cart before the horse, as I need to execute this move, coming from another flight pattern. Hmm, I don't think that can happen right now, or I have no idea what to do, as far as coming from 1 manuver with momentum, and setteling into the said, manuver. I'm not that good....

Thanks

"I just don't Listen" "

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04-21-2009 12:50 PM  9 years agoPost 27
heli-cuzz

rrElite Veteran

Pittston, Pa. USA

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Just fly the heli, have fun, and don't be in such a rush to become a 3D champ. It doesn't happen overnight.
Keep practicing, you'll get there.

Fury 55 NIB Furion6 CGY750 fbl helicopter-Frenzy CGY750 fbl nitro-Frenzy fbl NOBAR90

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04-21-2009 01:02 PM  9 years agoPost 28
JAGNZ

rrProfessor

Auckland, New Zealand

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Brian, no move can stay vertical for any length of time. The best you can hope for is just shy of vertical in either direction (i.e. wall of death or steep hurricane/funnel). Or briefly vertical and then back to a slight bank angle. Or briefly vertical quickly followed by another maneuver (i.e the wall).

As stated it is a constant balance of momentum and lift. Get a SIM and you can test it out risk free.


Jason Greenwood

www.3dheli.co.nz

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04-21-2009 01:18 PM  9 years agoPost 29
Flying Brian

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St. Clairsville, Ohio

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The best you can hope for is just shy of vertical in either direction
You guys are correct, the nose definitly needs to be angled a bit, just to stay there. I'm able to get a quarter turn, "away", in this position before I loose it on the sim. It's hard to keep upright, for sure...

"I just don't Listen" "

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04-21-2009 01:35 PM  9 years agoPost 30
Flying Brian

rrElite Veteran

St. Clairsville, Ohio

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There is a Video that JAGNZ posted, and the guy flying does the manuver at about 1:20 seconds, to 1:30 seconds in the video. That is what I want to execute right there.

"I just don't Listen" "

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04-21-2009 01:40 PM  9 years agoPost 31
JAGNZ

rrProfessor

Auckland, New Zealand

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Those are just mini-Rainbows or elongated tick-toc's with hesitations at 0 deg pitch. They are easier than they look. I would start with traveling flips, they are easiest of all. You start with a flip and then hold pitch a tad longer in the vertical orientation. From these maneuvers come the traveling tick-toc's which look awesome IMHO....


Jason Greenwood

www.3dheli.co.nz

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04-21-2009 02:08 PM  9 years agoPost 32
Flying Brian

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St. Clairsville, Ohio

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Those are just mini-Rainbows or elongated tick-toc's with hesitations at 0 deg pitch
I think they look Beautiful, and adding the back flip at the end is awesome too. So smoooooth!!

"I just don't Listen" "

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04-21-2009 02:13 PM  9 years agoPost 33
T-Rex-Flyer

rrElite Veteran

Panama City, Fl

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Pilot where out there flying there heli's long before there where simulators and they got by just fine, so it can be done. There no need to keep beating poor Brian to death with it.

Lonewolf... I'd like to propose a challenge for you, Compose a post of more then one sentence that doesn't contain the words Sim or Simulator. I just bet you can do it if you put you mind to it.

If the wings are traveling faster than the fuselage, it's probably a helicopter.

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04-21-2009 06:17 PM  9 years agoPost 34
HydroJoe

rrApprentice

SF,CA

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Yup....thats just a rainbow (with some nice flare.) One of my favorite moves. And is one of the easiest. For me, the key was learning inverted orientations. That will allow you to correct the heli through the move (and not just hammer it and hope for the best.) I started with tic-tocs and slowly just started working them into rainbows.

T-Rex 450 SE V2 , T-Rex 600 NSP, Stryker F27 C....Yea, it's a plank.

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04-21-2009 06:23 PM  9 years agoPost 35
Flying Brian

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St. Clairsville, Ohio

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This would have been so much less diffucult to explain, if I knew the correct termonoligys for these manuvers..

"I just don't Listen" "

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04-21-2009 08:04 PM  9 years agoPost 36
Sillyness

rrVeteran

Little Rock AR

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I short course in vector math sounds like it would serve you very well.

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04-21-2009 08:33 PM  9 years agoPost 37
Flying Brian

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St. Clairsville, Ohio

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Vector Math.

That sounds like to much thinking, all together....

"I just don't Listen" "

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04-21-2009 08:34 PM  9 years agoPost 38
brcg123

rrKey Veteran

Wagoner OK USA

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Pilot where out there flying there heli's long before there where simulators and they got by just fine, so it can be done. There no need to keep beating poor Brian to death with it.
I for one dont understand why Brian wants to do this without the use of a simulator, but, its not mandatory to use one either. Like it has been said, many, many times before, they were doing it without sims before this, and they did just fine, although, it takes on the average, with the use of a sim, sometimes hundreds of flights doing the same stick movements, before your "muscle memory" has time to kick in and take over during a single move like the one he is describing here. And, dont kid yourself, its all about muscle memory. If you have to take time to think about a move, its too late.
So what if it takes 3 months to convert shear terror, and untold hours of picking other pilot's brains about, "how do you guys do a certain move?" and parts, parts, parts, into muscle memory. Look at the money he is saving on NOT waisting it on a sim.
I applaud him for his willpower to resist conforming to the pressure's of being forced to use one of this hobbies most outstanding achievements in training, the simulator. Yeah, they did it without one back in "the day", but, I consider the fact that we have a simulator to use, a "fast track" to learning muscle memory at a much faster pace than in the past. RC pilots are performing much harder moves than 'back in the day" and if your wanting to move into 3D maneuvers, It will be a long, and expensive road ahead without some sort of help in speeding up the process a little. just my opinion though...








Trex700N, Trex600N, Raptor70, RaptorTitan, GMPCrickett, Visa

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04-21-2009 08:46 PM  9 years agoPost 39
Flying Brian

rrElite Veteran

St. Clairsville, Ohio

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Well Thanks for the kind words.

I am excelling much faster in flight, then the normal beginner, and I also feel very natural flying to. I find this to be true, as I read here on rr, that so many beginners struggle for a long time, and most give up.

Like I told you boys in the begining, Im a Heavy Equipment Operator of 16 years(Muscle Memory). I operate Road graders and finish bull dozers, that cut 1/8, 1/4, and 1/2 Inch layers of hard pack, and soft pack dirt, out of mother earth, for concrete roads. I cut in cross slopes(the crown and inverts of american roadways, and parking lots) as well.

What all this means is, I have a very excellent skill with my hands(and the seat of my ass), and this trasitions over to Helicopters like you would'nt believe.

Ask Axeclint what he thinks of my flying skills(he is a christian boy, he won't lie), at just over 200 flights, he will tell you the truth.(I amaze myself a hec k of alot more, when I fly alone for somreason though, it's weird)

Again, Thanks for the kind words though....

"I just don't Listen" "

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04-21-2009 09:02 PM  9 years agoPost 40
VooDooX

rrElite Veteran

San Francisco Bay Area CA, US (San Mateo)

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OH MY GOD F!@#$%^&@$ GET A SIMULATOR GET IT THRU YOUR HEAD THEY ALSO USED TO RIDE HORSES EVERYWHERE BACK IN THE DAY SO IF YOU WANNA SADDLE UP THEN GO AHEAD YOUR BASICALLY IGNORING TECHNOLOGY AND EXPECTING TO LEARN THE SAME THING AS IF YOU WERE BACK IN THE DAY WELL BACK IN THE DAY THEY ALSO DIDN'T USE GYROS SO TAKE YOUR GYRO OFF NOW! SORRY FOR THE SUPER RANT BUT FOR FVCK$ SAKE GET A DAMN SIMULATOR AND QUIT MAKING NEW TOPICS IN MAIN DISCUSSION SAYING OO LOOK WHAT I CAN DO YOU CANT DO @#$%@#$ NOTHING YOU WILL IMPRESS NOONE AT A CLUB SO STOP POSTING USELESS MOVES YORU TRYING IN MAIN DISCUSSION THIS ISNT THE FIRST TIME EITHER end rant whew this will prolly get tagged rather fast but i cant put up with his stubbornness anymore and this post will hopefully save him some money the end

Velocity 50 "99.9999999999999% of an atom is empty space." also 01001000 01001001

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HomeAircraftHelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › Flying Nose Up, and Backwards
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