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04-22-2009 09:25 PM  10 years ago
Dr.Rivet

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Seattle, WA, USA

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I asked this before but I will again wouldn't 6061 be strong enough?
2024 is an awful expensive alloy.
When I'll have time I'll help you to select an appropriate alloy, form and heat treat.

2024-T3 has poor fatigue qualities at elevated temperatures. 7000 series might be your best bet. Can someone please let me know what is maximum temperature for crank case (not cylinder head)?

Also, zenoah case is cast magnesium alloy. If someone can provide exact number and heat treat I could compare the allowables at elevated temperature and calculate equivalent thicknesses for aluminum plate alloys and eventually give you how much weight could be saved (or gained) in percent or weight of the original case.
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04-22-2009 10:03 PM  10 years ago
smallplanes

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Yes i thought of going to AutoZone and getting some gasket paper and make my own, i have a friend with a viynal cutter do you think it would cut the gasket materail?

I know you said to use 6061 alum but i don't think its hardenuff or wil carrry the high temp as the 2024. Not only that the bearings might spin in the softer aluminum. We make alot of pat out of 6061 aluminum so i do have plenty of scrape i could use,but like i said i'm scared it will not hold up. If you go to DA's web site they use 7075 aircraft aluminum but its like twice as high as the as the 2024 aircraft grade aluminum. If you go to First Place engines they use 2024 aluminum to make there crank case out of and they use Sacks dolmar chain saw heads and pistons and there motors. They have great running motor's but there a little on the heavy side. I ran a FPE engine for years on a plane and there very good motors,i also ran Bryson motors and there good too. I know alot of people running DA's and there the best gas motor out there.

I could make a protoytpe case out of 6061 until i get the program just right before i make one out of 2024.

Do any of you know of a website i could go and read on how to make a gas motor perform well?

The light weight piston i'm talking about is for a 26cc Zenoah not a 20cc.

Thanks for all the info

Spectra G 26cc
Jewel
Bat 27cc
Trex 700<br
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04-22-2009 10:12 PM  10 years ago
Dr.Rivet

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Seattle, WA, USA

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Just a little FYI: Alloy number is not enough for determining the capability of the material, heat treat, aging and form are equally as important. So, 7075-T6151 plate 3 inches thick would have 20-25% less Ftu then for example 2024-T3 clad sheet of 0.032'' thick.
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04-22-2009 10:16 PM  10 years ago
shawmcky

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Isle of Wight,United Kingdom

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Light piston
Hanson or O,neill brothers racing do a lightweight piston for the 26cc motor.As far as cutting your gasket material goes a sturdy pair of scissors and a steady hand will suffice if need be.
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04-22-2009 10:24 PM  10 years ago
shawmcky

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Isle of Wight,United Kingdom

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Smallplanes
Tuning the 26cc try http://www.jeroentune.nl for a pictorial guide in the "Motors"section,shows how to lighten your own piston if you are handy with a dremel.Has a full porting guide as well in pictures.
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04-27-2009 07:00 AM  10 years ago
LookalikeMike

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the Netherlands

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Dont forget to pay (alot) attention to the tuned muffler too.

2strokes are very,very dependent from what muffler you put on them.
There are people who spent hunderdreds if not thousands of hours to get the right hand-made tuned pipe.

There's a dutch guy here in Holland who has been racing with 50cc motorbikes in the 60's and he offers alot of help on his site (you can send him the dimensions of your 2stroke and he'll calculate the right pipe for you for a small fee).

http://geocities.com/lucfoekema/Exhaust.html

Good luck and keep us up-to-date!
Diplomacy is the art of saying "Nice doggie" until you can find a rock.
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04-29-2009 11:32 AM  10 years ago
shawmcky

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Isle of Wight,United Kingdom

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First engine run up today
Ran the bizta motor today as all the parts arrived more or less at once.I can tell from the first run that this motor has some serious power.It feels completely different from the other motors and the response is awesome.the first time i blipped the throttle it jumped out of the vice and i only just touched it.
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04-29-2009 12:05 PM  10 years ago
Fixit

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UK

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That’s it! the new name for your engine,
Grass Hopper
I only like to fly gassed up
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04-29-2009 12:42 PM  10 years ago
kosta

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Melbourne Australia

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No no Fixit, It's Gass Hopper!!
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04-29-2009 12:52 PM  10 years ago
Fixit

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UK

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No no Fixit, It's Gass Hopper
Now why didn’t I think of that that’s perfect.
I only like to fly gassed up
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04-29-2009 05:17 PM  10 years ago
smallplanes

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Put up some pics
Spectra G 26cc
Jewel
Bat 27cc
Trex 700<br
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04-29-2009 06:20 PM  10 years ago
shawmcky

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Isle of Wight,United Kingdom

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Some Pics
Looks like any other 26cc,the inside is the difference.Lot of marine parts,dont float though. Needs a video.

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04-29-2009 06:55 PM  10 years ago
Justin Stuart (RIP)

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Plano, Texas

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I'm confused. Did you make this engine in the photographs?Avant RC
Scorpion Power Systems
Thunder Power RC
Kontronik Drives
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04-29-2009 07:43 PM  10 years ago
shawmcky

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Isle of Wight,United Kingdom

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jrockstuart
Yes ,this engine has a full circle teflon buttoned crank,2 mm extra stroke for around 27.5cc,fully gas flowed cylinder,lightweight piston,lightened flywheel,low drag seals.Squish area machined to allow for the extra 2mm of stroke so does away with adding thick gaskets below the cylinder base.
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04-29-2009 07:50 PM  10 years ago
shawmcky

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Isle of Wight,United Kingdom

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Zenoah motor
I put this motor together last night and ran it in the vice at work,set the needles at 1-1/4 low and 1-1/2 high.It runs rich/ rough on low at 1-1/4 if you lean out to one it really sings but i am running in so bit of care required.Sloppy on the oil too.
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04-29-2009 10:50 PM  10 years ago
Dr.Rivet

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Seattle, WA, USA

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Do not run it in a vice or you'll crack the case. Ask me how I know. It needs something softer to absorb the vibration and vice transmits it right back.
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04-29-2009 10:56 PM  10 years ago
Justin Stuart (RIP)

rrMaster

Plano, Texas

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shawmcky, I'm impressed. You're quite the machinist.Avant RC
Scorpion Power Systems
Thunder Power RC
Kontronik Drives
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04-30-2009 07:25 AM  10 years ago
shawmcky

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Isle of Wight,United Kingdom

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Running the motor
The vice i use has wooden jaws and the lower engine mounting plate bolted to the engine clamped in them .The engine was only run at a fast idle with a few blips so no undue stress.This engine has had no machining by me personally,i wont take the credit for someone elses work,all the parts have been drawn from various top tuners,the crankcase complete with full circle 2mm stroked crank,it is machined by the supplier to accept the crank and sold as a built unit.The cylinder and machined piston came from another source,gas flowed for low end power,the stroking alone adds 15%torque.The flywheel from yet another source.All i have to do is put thes few parts together so i dont incurr the machining costs and use their expertise in these fields.The only thing i will do when fitted to the heli is match the exhaust and alloy inlet openings to the larger port sizes.I also have a larger diameter carb if needed.The only thing i needed do was research which parts to use and whether they would match the specs needed to build the engine into a running unit.
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04-30-2009 11:06 PM  10 years ago
Dr.Rivet

rrApprentice

Seattle, WA, USA

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Could you please make a list of parts, manufacturers for each part and prices. I think this would be very useful for most of us who want to go that route. Also, list of links would be very nice too. Thank you!
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05-01-2009 03:09 PM  10 years ago
shawmcky

rrElite Veteran

Isle of Wight,United Kingdom

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Long weekend coming up
Going to mount this engine in a spare Kalt frame to run it in,it struggles to run at 11/4 unless i screw the idle speed screw right in,which i have fitted for now.It is rich at this setting but when it clears its throat from the rich mix,the power punches in,so i want to have it in a controllable test bed with a loaded head and run it in that way.Have made a few brackets today to mount the engine securely in the old GS airframe.Want to see if i have any vibe problems in the frame,hard to determine whilst running in on a rich mix and 25.1.Plug is oily,black to brown at the moment,must resist the temptation to lean it out though.
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