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Blade 400 › 3D 400 blade x-heli cnc head upgrade
04-06-2009 02:40 AM  9 years agoPost 1
cybsterman

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warren,oh

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Just installed new cnc complete head upgrade from x-heli.when i installed it i noticed the leading edge of the tail grips were pointing up at no throttle,upon throttle had a lot of vibration at mid stick and noticed the blades were pushing the heli down and figured the vibration came from the rotor wash-the heli was dancing all around.changed my settings on the tx from -75,-75,+85 to+75,+75,-85.all seemed fine but all my settings for left,right,forward and back are all reversed.also noticed my swashplate rises upon throttle instead of going down from my original setup from the factory which is no big deal.has anyone tried this upgrade and please let me know your tx settings.my next step is to reverse polarities on the three servos that connect to the receiver.any imput would be greatly appreciated.thanks

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04-06-2009 02:45 AM  9 years agoPost 2
cybsterman

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warren,oh

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correction-my bad
i meant rotor grips

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04-06-2009 08:29 PM  9 years agoPost 3
Mitchilito

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Morehead City, NC USA

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Cyber, your new head is running the blade grip input levers trailing the grips instead of leading the grips as before. Fact of the matter is I've found NO difference in the way heli's fly either way. Only thing you needed to do was change your pitch setting from positive to negative (leave Ail and Elev the way they were). If you want the blades to pitch up when the swashplate moves up then you can flip your grips to lead (and dial your pitch opposite again). Like I said, I've never noticed any difference and don't really have a preference.

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04-07-2009 03:30 AM  9 years agoPost 4
jason46

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MI

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If you were -75 -75 +85 the correct correction should be -75 -75 -85.

Supposedly having the mixing arm on the leading edge reduces the load on the servos.. so that is why I do it =)

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04-07-2009 03:45 PM  9 years agoPost 5
Mitchilito

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Morehead City, NC USA

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That's interesting Jason. I run mine leading also but just because I like the blades going up when the swashplate does. Guess I'm taking it easy on my servos too

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04-07-2009 11:34 PM  9 years agoPost 6
cybsterman

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warren,oh

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thanks to all that replied.i could have sworn that was the first thing i did upon installing the new cnc head,change the pitch from +85 to -85 in the swash mix menu and it was all screwed up.to make a long story short,checked all my setting on my tx and even made some minor changes,then went to the swash mix menu and kept aile at -75% elev at -75% and changed the pitch to -85% and lo and behold everythings golden,my heli wants to fly.the only thing i noticed is a little binding at 100% throttle,no big deal,will tweak it.threw some new align blades on her and there way out of track,so next ill balanced the blades then fix the tracking and go from there.i also see some ball links being adjusted to get her at +pitch sooner.any recomendations would be deeply appreciated.thanks to all.the cybster-now i can go to on to build my new tz frenzy nitro.

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04-08-2009 01:38 AM  9 years agoPost 7
supra6

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Singapore

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Do not change the ball links to "get pitch sooner" that will screw the pouch in terms of pitch. Level the swash and keep it level. Set 0 pitch at mid stick, then check your pitch range, looking for +10/-10. if youare getting say +8/-12 what you need to do is raise the entire swash up, try one complete turn on all the servo rods then check again. Moving the entire swash up will give you more pitch on the top end and less on the bottom.
Another problem, let's say you are getting +10/-6, the range is 16 degrees, here you have 2 issues, uneven spread +/- and not enough range of motion only 16 degreees. This case is different then above, you have more + then - so you first need to DROP the swash to = amounts up and down +/- 8 degrees, now you need to get more movement on the servos to give more range, do this in the Swash Mix, if you were at -85 then go to -90, you will have more pitch on both ends but the swash remains level at 0 mid stick.
Keep in mind these are done in stunt or idel up mode, DISCONNECT the motor to be safe.
Now as to your idea of changing the links to get more pitch sooner, this is controled in the pitch curve. NORMAL P/C should be something like 40,45,50,75,100, what this means it at the mid point on the stick you are getting 50% of the possible range of motion, which we set to 0 degrees at set up, at curve point 5 we get 100% or max pitch which we set to +10 and at the low end we get 40% of the range which should be about -2 degrees. The same applies in IDEL UP except the curve will be 0,25,50,75,100, buy thinking about this for a bit, this gives the ability to get 0% of the range, -10 degrees, for inverted flight. If you want to get more pitch sooner then you have to mess with the pitch curve, keep in mind there are 3 selectable curves in the pitch mode, leave Stunt at 0,25,50,75,100 and try the 40,45,50,75,100 for normal and see what you think.
Also the Throttle Curve will also affect how she flies and what STICK position you are hovering in. Those are a different story so shout out if yu need.

On a side note I am using the cncheli sonix head, same head different color, on mine and have a swash mix of -67, check that you are not getting binding at the top or bottom of your washout block at the extreme limits, +/- 10, you should have jsut a slight gap between the washout block and the headblock at the max pitch deflection you are going to use. Mine may be different due to the different shaft length from the stock shaft but -85 sounds like alot.

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04-08-2009 01:49 AM  9 years agoPost 8
supra6

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Singapore

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Sorry guys I don't get it, both the stock head and the xheli/cncheli/rex clones, heads are rear control. The reason for the swash mix change from + to - is due to the conecting linkage from the swash to the grips. On the stocker they go direct to the grip so to move the grip ball down, moving the blade up you have to lower the swash. On the other style head the control rod from the swash gose to a piviot arm then to the grip, moving the swash up results in the ball link of the grip being pulled down and hence positive pitch.

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04-08-2009 08:01 PM  9 years agoPost 9
Mitchilito

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Morehead City, NC USA

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Supra, that fact doesn't really change anything we've said about the setup does it? Still all true. . . .

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04-09-2009 03:18 AM  9 years agoPost 10
supra6

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Singapore

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"Cyber, your new head is running the blade grip input levers trailing the grips instead of leading the grips as before"

Thought I was missing something.

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04-09-2009 09:35 PM  9 years agoPost 11
cybsterman

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warren,oh

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supra- my blade grips are leading my imput levers and will that make much of an impact on my stock sevo life.and as far as blade tracking ,should i be in throttle hold mode and try to get both blades to be as close to 0 pitch.ive read you shouldnt be in normal orstunt/idle up modes and mid stick when tracking rotor blades.is this true.thanks for all your imput,and by the way ive always had my throttle curve set for normal at 40/45/50/75/100 this way i wasnt slamming the heli on the ground when landing.

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04-10-2009 09:58 AM  9 years agoPost 12
supra6

rrApprentice

Singapore

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For setup your are in stunt mode, or another option is in the pitch curve for HOLD you set up 0,25,50,75,100 this way you can do the setup in throttls hold and not have to disconect the motor, provided you are VERY CAREFUL that you do not bump the T/H switch while working on the heli. After you get them as close as possible to "0" at midstick, +/- 10 degrees pitch and the swash moving level, the final adjustment is to track the blades, pick a master and adjust the slave to the master.
On the curve you posted I hope that is your PITCH curve, if if it really is your throttle curve your motor will not stop at low stick and you would have to use Throttle Hold to stop the motor.
As far as your grips, am I to assume you did the "Grip Flip" mod? Normal is to control the grip by the trailing edge. I have never done the grip flip mod, if you did I'll assume you did it by the links and post in the MOD's thread here and it's done correctly. If so I can not see why you servos would last any less then the normal position of the grips. I never found the need to flip them on my blade so I left them stock, trailing edge control.
As for the stock servos it's not a question of if they fail it's a question of when, IMHO

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04-10-2009 10:48 AM  9 years agoPost 13
cybsterman

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warren,oh

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again my bad=those were my pitch settings.ill try your setup tonight and let you know how it turns out.hopefully i can get the bugs worked out of this new head because next i have a 401/9257 combo im going to swap for the stock gyro and servo.thanks again for all your help.

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04-14-2009 02:12 AM  9 years agoPost 14
cybsterman

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warren,oh

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just thought id give you an update on the performance on the cnc head upgrade from heli-x on my blade 400.first of all,thanks to supra 6 for all his imput on my setup and everybody else who responded.what i did first is i leveled the swash plate,then i leveled the flybar,balanced the main rotors and took it out for a spin.what a difference in handling-rock solid as far as the head and super smooth,now i have to work on the tail,as we all know thats the weak spot on the blade besides the servos.i tweaked the tail as close as possible and it actually flies really nice but im still going to swap the rear to a 401/9257 combo soon which i have in the parts bin.just again to all that replied,ill keep you updaded on my progress with the tail.just another thought,the tail blades seemed a little mushy and im thinking about upgrading to carbon fiber.any thoughts .thanks again.

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