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HomeRC & PowerAircraftHelicopterRadio - JR DMSS › After 20 years with Futaba, switching to JR after back to back test.
04-05-2009 05:01 PM  9 years agoPost 1
Bell Bloke

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UK

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Well guys we did the Futaba 2.4 and 35mhz vs JR 2.4 tests today and I have to say I am very shocked and kind of disapointed too.
We have videoed the test and I will post it once it is edited for clarity.
The test was a Futaba 35mhz vs Futaba 2.4 vs JR 2.4
Each system was put on 3 identical turbine helicopters in what we believed to be the best set-up.
Each system was tested in good dry conditions in a very flat Norfolk, England.
Each 2.4 system puts out 100mw and not the more powerful American 200mw signal.
All tests were done back to back at the same time in the same conditions.
So here is what we found:

The Futaba 2.4 is far more resilient to being 'blocked' or 'screened' by the turbine and by large lumps of metal than I had thought it would be. It copes very well in any orientation infact and although it is orientation is more critical when at the limit of it's range it is none the less far far better than I was lead to believe.

The old Futaba 35mhz performed 1/3rd better than the Futaba 2.4 radio, this was slightly surprising because you always think technology is going to give you more, but not surprising since I had heard that 2.4 is very directional and is supposed to be more line of sight....kind of...

Inspite of the new 2.4 Futaba being 1/3rd shorter on range than the old 35mhz Futaba. I found that the way the 2.4 Futaba system performed was far more progressive than the 35mhz system.
Basically what I mean by this is that the 2.4 system does not just shut you out and go into failsafe like the 35mhz does. What it does is go notchy and slightly stuttery long before an actual failsafe situation. This I have to say I like, because it gives you some warning of impending trouble and for that alone I would rather have it over the 35mhz in spite of it's shorter range.

So now the moment you have all been waiting for....'Drum Roll'

How did that bloody horrible, rubbishy unprogrammable JR set do.
Well firstly I have to say that I am used to having all my engine system switches on the right hand side. With the Futaba you can program and set your switches to do what ever you want, but can you with the JR..... can you hell.... it's a right pain in the A$$ to get those switches 'tricked' into doing what I want them to do. But via some very creative switch mixing that had me wanting to drive my car over the damn thing I got there in the end at the expense of an idle up.
THAT SAID!!!
HOW DID IT PERFORM???!
Well I have to tell you I am gob smacked, the JR set, totally out performed both the Futaba 2.4 and even the Futaba 35mhz set, and not by a bit, but by more than double the range!!
Now I am writing this through gritted teeth because, I am now totally sold on this JR set, and this means that we are going to have to learn to get along, because I am not giving it back now.
However not only did it out perform the Futaba, it also remained faultlessly smooth throughout, even in any orientation and even when at it's limits.
As you would expect with all those little aerials on it, the JRs range is totally unaffected by orientation and this is another deciding factor for me.
Finally the Big Bonus!!
Yes the JR set has a data logging system that records receiver signal strength during operation, a kind of 'black box' recorder for radio. I see this as a master stroke for the seriously 'Thorough' 'Picky' or 'Paranoid' flyer such as myself because it gives the only true feedback you will ever get as to the true health of your radio set-up, and for me that's something I've been wanting for more that 10 years and now I have it!!

Couple of final things to add to the mix...
In all of the tests Will and I were in contact with each other via our mobile phones which run at 900mhz. None of the radios even at the limits of their abilities were affected by this even when the handsets were placed simultaneously inches from both transmitter and receiver at range.
Also during the JR test, I also placed the switched on Futaba 2.4 set at point blank range along with my active cell phone on 900mhz and Will with his cell phone at 900mhz inches from the JR transmitter whilst he was more than a mile away and...not a single glitch!! This was unbelievably impressive and really showed us how absolutely bulletproof this JR radio link seems to be.

So what about Futaba are they an also ran? Well I have to say that for anybody out there flying Jets, Turbine Helis, or anything else for that matter, the Futaba 2.4 is perfectly fine and will never I'm sure have any range issues, ever. It certainly copes really well with having 'only' 1 receiver and orientation range is very stable.
BUT if you are paranoid like me and you have to have the best then right now the JR in my opinion is just totally 'out there!' Fantastic!! The best by far on range and features. As for reliability? Well only time will tell but both Futaba and JR have probably had their equel share of problems in the past, but for my sake I hope they are over that now.
So I'm converting to JR for now....
But I still hate the JR programming!

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04-05-2009 06:07 PM  9 years agoPost 2
nappyroots2182

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Moline, il

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ya im didnt like the JR programming either and went with JR last year after being a futaba guy for 15 years. i wont go back either. i didnt need the tests you did a fine job of doing but i knew Jr has always made top notch equipment so i wasnt scared. i can live with the lack of programming in my dx7. i have never had a problem yet

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04-05-2009 07:05 PM  9 years agoPost 3
Bell Bloke

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UK

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Thing is I need proof, and until I see, then for me it's just conjecture... if you get my meaning.

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04-05-2009 08:51 PM  9 years agoPost 4
Four Stroker

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Atlanta

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What were the ranges that you achieved ?

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04-05-2009 09:02 PM  9 years agoPost 5
RappyTappy

rrProfessor

Traveling the USA

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JR programming is fine. Its just what you start with and get used to then other things are weird. JR flyers think Futabas programming is weird too, lol.

I do have to say I've been flying JR stuff now for years and years before that Futaba stuff. I like JR stuff now.

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04-05-2009 09:19 PM  9 years agoPost 6
rtdillon

rrApprentice

Huntsville, AL

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Tried them both
I started RC life with the Futaba 6EXH. I moved onto the 9C. (All on 72 mhz.) I bought into all of the hype and bought a DX7 and got rid of the 9C. To my major disappointment the DX7 would not allow the programming I feel necessary. I expect to be able to have a switch with throttle hold and another switch with engine kill. Having both of those function at the same time is not possible with the DX7. Any kind of mix that would kill the engine required negative pitch on the collective. It is also possible to kill the engine by setting the throttle hold to a kill position but not possible to have a proper throttle hold and a throttle kill. I moved up to the JR 9303 2.4 and was extremely disappointed to discover the same problem. I spent many hours with JR support and they finally told me that this isn't possible and that JR didn't feel it was important....have a nice day.

At that point I sold the 9303 and purchased a Futaba 12FGH. Now I have to figure out how to set it up right! I only wish that Futaba would build some receivers designed with high current inputs to the RX.

All of these comments are just my opinion and your results may vary.

No,No..The other left!

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04-05-2009 10:45 PM  9 years agoPost 7
Bell Bloke

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UK

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The ground range of the JR 2.4 was 1 mile, the Futaba 2.4 was 0.4 mile and the Futaba 35mhz was 0.5 mile. It must be noted that this is a ground range and I so would expect all of the sets to do rather better in the air given that our test had various trees and hedges in the way of the signal although each system test as I said was under the same conditions.
Someone asked me if I could see a model from 0.4 miles well the answer is I could man standing in a field from 0.4 miles away but their is no way I could see to 'control' a model from that kind of range. However radio waves are a funny thing and range can be shortened by all kinds of stuff, ie wet ground, a tree nearby, power or coms cables buried under your feet, other radio signals etc, etc. With a good strong signal, you are better protected from a swamp or fade signal situation.
rtdillon you have had the exact same JR programming issues that I have had, it drives you crazy doesn't it. Still I will live with it I guess.

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04-05-2009 10:54 PM  9 years agoPost 8
ASlorenz

rrApprentice

Switzerland

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Buy one DSX9
hi rtdillon

buy an JR DSX9 and you not have the problem of engine kill

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04-06-2009 02:14 AM  9 years agoPost 9
midwestpilot

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Crystal Lake, IL

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You went to a futaba 12...
you could have got the 12x and got all the progamming back.. it is the only radio of JR's that has it all.. so you did not need to change.. just get the jr 12 over the futaba 12..

I am an ex futaba as well.. traded 9c for DX7 and now up to 9303.. I am ok with it for now and will probably get a 12x when my planking abilities gets me up to 40%ers or jets

In life there is no spacebar!

Rich Erikson AMA 6175

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04-06-2009 04:52 AM  9 years agoPost 10
rtdillon

rrApprentice

Huntsville, AL

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JR said no
When JR told me that my needs were not a priority I lost interest in their product. I understand their point but don't agree with it. My needs are the most important thing in my universe.

No,No..The other left!

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04-06-2009 05:42 AM  9 years agoPost 11
hootowl

rrProfessor

Garnet Valley, Pa.

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This thread reads like a bad magazine article. Where's the data?

Wolves don't lose sleep over the opinions of sheep

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04-06-2009 11:35 AM  9 years agoPost 12
Bell Bloke

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UK

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I don't write for magazines Hootowl. I'm just trying to provide a good comparative test with no confusing data. Just like HotRod racing at the end of the day it's the head to head in the same conditions that counts, all the rest is just claims and theory.
What data do you require? If you list it I will try and provide some.

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04-06-2009 12:05 PM  9 years agoPost 13
nivlek

rrProfessor

Norfolk England

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This thread reads like a bad magazine article. Where's the data?
Sounds like a quote from a Futaba user .

At the end of the day , it gets dark .

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04-06-2009 06:19 PM  9 years agoPost 14
hootowl

rrProfessor

Garnet Valley, Pa.

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It seems like it's written with a lot of negatives against JR but claims JR to be the clear winner? I'm just confused. You wanted to drive your car over the JR

The question is how do they perform, side by side, just flying ? Are you losing signal in the air? Are the European radios the same power as the USA versions?

Yes I'm a Futaba guy.

Wolves don't lose sleep over the opinions of sheep

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04-06-2009 07:31 PM  9 years agoPost 15
Eco8gator

rrElite Veteran

Palm Beach, FL

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Whats the output power on both systems?

C

Xera Motors
ProBar
Minicopter
Thunder Power

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04-06-2009 11:22 PM  9 years agoPost 16
9387ASH

rrElite Veteran

UK

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Futaba globally is 100mW EIRP

Spektrum/JR USA & Other locations (except Europe & Japan) 200mW EIRP
Spektrum/JR Europe 100mW EIRP
JR Japan for DSM/DSM2 10mW EIRP
JR Japan for DSMJ 100mW EIRP

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04-06-2009 11:26 PM  9 years agoPost 17
9387ASH

rrElite Veteran

UK

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I spent many hours with JR support and they finally told me that this isn't possible and that JR didn't feel it was important....have a nice day.
For a start you meant to say Horizon ! JR do offer that facility BUT NOT on Horizon sourced JR radios. On the JR systems (other markets) this is a standard feature.

The rep you spoke to doesn't seem to know is arse from his elbow as this can be easily set up via mix and assigned to a spare switch.

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04-07-2009 06:28 AM  9 years agoPost 18
human213

rrVeteran

malibu

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Bell
Have you seen this new low frame rate receiver?

R6008HS 8-Channel Receiver

* Offers G3 2048 resolution plus FASST benefits including Dual Antenna Diversity and significantly reduced latency for lightning-quick response

* High-speed operation takes advantage of digital servos’ ability to update more rapidly than analog servos (both can be used with this receiver)

* HS (High Speed) mode improves frame rate on channels 1-6 to only 7 milliseconds — compared to 14 milliseconds at normal mode.*

* Note: In HS mode, digital servos (including those in the BLS series) must be used on channels 1-6. Those channels will also operate gyros and brushless ESCs. Channels 7 and 8 continue at normal mode and accept any servos.

Stock # Dimensions Weight
FUTL7639 1.8 x 0.9 x 0.5 in (45 x 22 x 13 mm) 0.48 oz (13.54 g)

Next, to measure the total system latency with this new receiver
and all the futaba compatible xmitters...

Also, Bell, did you measure the output of both transmitters, or
was the data from manufacturer published specs? (no criticism, just
curious)

If someone has better data, objectively obtained, as with Bell's
well controlled experiment, publish it...the ad hominem attack above
did not acknowledge the range deficiency...it is not unlike audiphile's attacking better sounding systems than the one they own!

Otherwise, you have to acknowledge the outcome.

Thanks for doing the work!!!!

Bell, Damn it all, i want the counter for rf quality assessment on
my futaba!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

michael

Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted.

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04-07-2009 10:21 AM  9 years agoPost 19
hootowl

rrProfessor

Garnet Valley, Pa.

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What does 1/3rd better mean? Reading the first paragraph has me confused as to how the distance was determined. Reading later towards the end it seems that someone was driving or walking out at a distance with a cell phone? Was someone watching the heli from afar or could he pilot see the model at the longest ranges?

This is why I answered skeptically. No clear explanation of how the distance or controllability was observed or determined.

Also, features? "The best by far on range and features." JR wins hands down with features? I don't think so. When you inject statements like that into a review that most would disagree with, it taints the rest of the review.

Wolves don't lose sleep over the opinions of sheep

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04-07-2009 11:43 AM  9 years agoPost 20
ikotikot

rrNovice

Philippines

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post it.....
perhaps you can post the reasons why "most would disagree with"

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